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Old 04-02-2006, 09:49 AM
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Timing hassels

Hey all here is something that is driving me crazy. I have a 69 Chevy 350 and I continue to mess with the timing. The thing is I don't know the cam size and build of the engine. it would be fairly simple to know where to set the timing in relation to TDC if I had this info. This is what I do know MSD Billet electronic ignition, Edelbrock 650 on a performer intake, Camel hump heads not sure if there are any mods to those Exhaust\Intake also not sure of the lift or duration of the cam, TH400 Tranny with mild shift kit and a 3:55 Posi. When adjusting the timing I get within the ballpark of timing but I seem to sacrifice power or performance and\or throttle response with each adjustment. The timing is set at about 8 deg BTDC when I messed with it last. The motor lags on throttle response at a dead stop but once the car is going and the tranny goes to second the tires will bark on the same note at a cruse when you hit the throttle I get back fire from the carb (Pop-Pop) then its fine on power. The motor may have a couple thousand miles on it since rebuild and the issue is again I have no idea what was put in the motor and of course I'm unable to get with the people who put it together. Any shop expertise or input on what I should do please let me know. This motor seems like it has at least 300hp or more and I would just like to reap the benefits of it's full potential. Again thank you to everyone who has assisted me on this site you all have been a tremendous help.

Last edited by Lenny Foderaro; 04-02-2006 at 10:04 AM.
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Old 04-02-2006, 10:42 AM
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Timing Hassle...

Sounds like a defective automatic advance to me son.
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Old 04-02-2006, 06:31 PM
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Doc here,

What happens when you run it at 12 ? Does the backfire go away?

Doc
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Old 04-02-2006, 07:01 PM
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it does go away when I put it at 12 but it still seems sluggesh at times. What are you thinking? I do appriciate the in put though.
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Old 04-02-2006, 07:06 PM
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If it has done this since the rebuild,it could be valve/cam timing,is it adjustable or fixed gear type ?

I would check it out as well as vacuum advance/centrifugal advance.

Have you tried to set timing with a vacuum guage,if not,try that as well.
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Old 04-02-2006, 07:15 PM
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Doc here,

My thought was Two issues..

Running too far retarded (backfire, 8 is a bit low..) ,

And wrong advance curve..may need to re~Weight the Dizzy..

Assuming the static timing is correct..(#1 Compression, TDC, Both Valves Closed and Timing marks lined up)..If you can't coordinate these...you MAY have mechanical problems Chain/gears off..or Wrong Dampener (timing mark)

Doc
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Old 04-03-2006, 09:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lenny Foderaro
Hey all here is something that is driving me crazy. I have a 69 Chevy 350 and I continue to mess with the timing.

The timing is set at about 8 deg BTDC when I messed with it last. The motor lags on throttle response at a dead stop but once the car is going and the tranny goes to second the tires will bark on the same note at a cruse when you hit the throttle I get back fire from the carb (Pop-Pop) then its fine on power.
Not enough timing!

Small block Chevy engines like a lot of timing!

Start your engine and let it get to operating temp. Shut it off and disconnect the vacuum advance hose from the distributor and plug the end of the hose. Hook up a good timing light. You will need a timing light that has the adjustable knob or timing tape installed on the harmonic balancer or a harmonic balancer that has the degrees marked on it. Re-start the engine and bring the RPM up to about 3000. Watch the timing marks as the RPM is increases. The timing should level off somewhere between 2500 and 3000 RPM. Set the timing to 34-38 degrees in that RPM range. This will be your TOTAL mechanical timing. Initial + Mechanical. Reduce the RPM to idle. Should be around 600-800 in DRIVE. Check the timing. Should be in the 14-18 degree range. Hook the vacuum advance hose back up. If it is hooked up to FULL manifold vacuum source (BEST) the idle RPM will increase. Lower the idle RPM back down with the throttle stop screw (NOT the air adjustment screws). If you were to check the timing with the vacuum advance hose connected the timing will show over 20 degrees. Do not be concerned about this. Vacuum will drop to ZERO when going to WOT and the timing will automatically adjust.

Remove the timing light and test drive. If you experience any pinging when going up a slight incline at "normal" speed (not hard acceleration) then retard the timing in 2 degree increments until the pinging is gone. What you are looking for is the maximum advance without any pinging.

All that being said... carb adjustment, vacuum advance cannister being used, gearing, etc. also will affect your performance.
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Old 04-05-2006, 05:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by docvette
Doc here,

My thought was Two issues..

Running too far retarded (backfire, 8 is a bit low..) ,

And wrong advance curve..may need to re~Weight the Dizzy..

Assuming the static timing is correct..(#1 Compression, TDC, Both Valves Closed and Timing marks lined up)..If you can't coordinate these...you MAY have mechanical problems Chain/gears off..or Wrong Dampener (timing mark)

Doc
Doc

I set it at 12 and it sails, I have pretty good accelleration from a dead stop as well as great accelleration at a cruise. Seems to be okay but I beleive it could still use a bit more tweekin, not perfect but better then what I had. I appriciate the info.
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Old 04-05-2006, 05:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lenny Foderaro
Doc

I set it at 12 and it sails, I have pretty good accelleration from a dead stop as well as great accelleration at a cruise. Seems to be okay but I beleive it could still use a bit more tweekin, not perfect but better then what I had. I appriciate the info.
Doc here,



But doesn't all our rods require " a little more tweekin'?"

Take a Saturday and do some timing changes around 12 static and 36+ TT, and set it for the best performance without detonation..you should be good to go..

Doc
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Old 04-05-2006, 07:12 PM
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Timing

I had the same problem and found that if I used a vacuum gage to set the timing, the engine started to run properly. Then I discovered that the outer ring on the harmonic balancer had moved in relation to the hub. Apparently, someone had removed this part before by pulling with a gear puller on the outer ring, thus tearing the rubber. I put a new balancer on and all ( well most all) of my problems went away.
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Old 04-06-2006, 05:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by docvette
Doc here,



But doesn't all our rods require " a little more tweekin'?"

Take a Saturday and do some timing changes around 12 static and 36+ TT, and set it for the best performance without detonation..you should be good to go..

Doc
For give me DOC TT ?? I'm sorry it's been some 20 years since I've played with hot rods due to my military obligations and so I'm a bite rusty on the acronyms. Please explain TT if you would, I'd appreciate it. U Da man DOC.
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Old 04-06-2006, 05:37 PM
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Doc here,

Static timing, At Idle, Advance (vacuum or Electronic) Defeated.

TT = Total Timing..advance in/on line, RPM about 2-3000.

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Old 04-07-2006, 07:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue67Camaro
Please explain TT if you would, I'd appreciate it.
TT stands for Total Timing (usually total mechanical timing only).

Total Timing as defined above is the initial advance set by you at idle + the mechanical advance built into the distributor.

Vacuum advance is NOT included in this figure.

True Total Timing would include the vacuum advance; however since the vacuum advance is not always present regardless of whether you are using ported or full vacuum source, it is not usually included when giving Total Timing.

Your distributor has a built in mechanical advance. Most GM HEI distributors have 20 degrees built in. As the engine RPM increases the distributor will advance internally. The rate (speed) of this advance is controlled by the advance weights and the return springs that are used. The number of degrees is controlled by slots in the advance plate.
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Old 04-07-2006, 06:57 PM
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Thank you Frisco

Between you and DOC I have received a ton of help thanks. So the MSD Billet Distributer I have should be 20 degrees and setting the timing at 12 degrees per Doc's instruction the TT is 32, if I'm following correctly. Please don't think I'm slow at this it's that timing and engines are not my specialty. What about hard starting when hot as I progress with this timing lesson I have experienced that situation. Right know the engine runs between 180 - 185 degrees in temp so it's not over heating. I did take it out tonight and cruise around unfortunately it's going to be raining in Hope Mills Saturday so I can't mess with the timing until probably Sunday some time. Again thank you for the info big time help.
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Old 04-07-2006, 07:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frisco
Not enough timing!

Small block Chevy engines like a lot of timing!.... What you are looking for is the maximum advance without any pinging.....
Maximum advance with out ping! I must agree, shoot for 36 to 40 degrees total.
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