Timing help - Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board
Hotrodders.com -- Hot Rod Forum



Register FAQ Search Today's Posts Unanswered Posts Auto Escrow Insurance Auto Loans
Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board > Tech Help> Engine
User Name
Password
lost password?   |   register now

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 04-16-2013, 06:48 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 18
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Timing help

I have a 418 sbc race engine with -10 brodix alum heads. 588 lift and 260 duration roller cam with dome top pistons. Msd ignition. My problem is when I put my timing light on its showing around 47*. When I bump it down to 34 or 36 the car will not restart. It acts like its way retarded. I have to advance it back to get it to fire. The car doesnt start hard though at this timing. I've tried using a different battery outside of the car to make sure it wasn't the battery or wiring in the car. The cam was installed heads up but not degreed in( same exact setup as I ran before the engine was just rebuilt) I just replaced the magnetic pickup in the dist and thought maybe I got the 2 mag wires backwards so I swapped them but no difference came from it. I'm trying to get another timing light to see if mine is bad but are there any other ideas? First race is Friday and I'm not comfortable running it without knowing true timing. Thanks

    Advertisement
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 04-16-2013, 06:57 PM
techinspector1's Avatar
Senior Curmudgeon
 
Last wiki edit: DynoSim combinations Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Hemet, California, USA
Age: 72
Posts: 13,082
Wiki Edits: 326

Thanks: 777
Thanked 1,057 Times in 879 Posts
There's only one way that I know to do it.....
http://www.crankshaftcoalition.com/w...op_dead_center
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 04-16-2013, 07:01 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 18
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
So the cam needs to be degreed in?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 04-16-2013, 07:03 PM
techinspector1's Avatar
Senior Curmudgeon
 
Last wiki edit: DynoSim combinations Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Hemet, California, USA
Age: 72
Posts: 13,082
Wiki Edits: 326

Thanks: 777
Thanked 1,057 Times in 879 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Racerman8 View Post
So the cam needs to be degreed in?
Ignition timing cares about where the piston is when the plug fires, it does not care about where the cam is as long as both valves are closed.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 04-16-2013, 07:04 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 18
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
K. I'm confused. I get what you said but not sure what I need to do I guess.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 04-16-2013, 07:25 PM
68NovaSS's Avatar
Hotrodders.com Moderator
 
Last wiki edit: Working with chromed bolts
Last journal entry: New to me T-Bucket
Last photo:
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Nine Mile Falls/Suncrest, WA
Posts: 5,258
Wiki Edits: 9

Thanks: 106
Thanked 133 Times in 124 Posts
Did you read the coalition link Tech gave you? You need to verify TDC for the #1 piston, and ensure your timing mark and pointer is spot on.
__________________
Boost adds dignity to what would otherwise be a vulgar brawl...

Midnight Sun Street Rod Association
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 04-16-2013, 08:07 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 18
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Ok. Sorry, I'm new to this stuff. After reading it a few times what I got was if tdc is showing,say 20* I then just make a "new" 0* mark there then set my timing accordingly? Will the engine still perform its best doing this or do I need to have the cam degreed in with a wheel and move timing gears if need be? Thanks for the info.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 04-16-2013, 08:24 PM
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Binghamton, NY
Posts: 333
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 68
Thanked 60 Times in 57 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Racerman8 View Post
Ok. Sorry, I'm new to this stuff. After reading it a few times what I got was if tdc is showing,say 20* I then just make a "new" 0* mark there then set my timing accordingly? Will the engine still perform its best doing this or do I need to have the cam degreed in with a wheel and move timing gears if need be? Thanks for the info.
Dude, that's alot of engine ($) for being 'new to this stuff.'

Degreeing the cam is great, but the first step of degreeing the cam is to find TDC#1. I believe that is what Tech and 68Nova are trying to tell you.

Once you find #1 TDC then look at your timing mark on the crank pulley/balancer. From the sounds of what you're describing, the mark won't be lined up with your timing pointer. There are several reasons this could be. If the engine runs properly, then the balancer could've slipped, the timing indicator you're using is not correct for the crank, or vice versa.

10-4 on not trying to race it without knowing exactly where the timing is.

Good luck.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 04-16-2013, 08:28 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 18
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I'm used to running a gm crate engine and switched to an "open class". I think I get it now. Ill pull the engine and put a degree wheel on it after going through and finding actual tdc. Thanks
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 04-16-2013, 08:43 PM
vinniekq2's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: BC,Canada
Age: 56
Posts: 8,326
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 342
Thanked 814 Times in 780 Posts
most race organisations insist on a safety type(sfi approved) balancer/flywheel/clutch
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 04-16-2013, 09:02 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 18
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Everything is sfi rated and up to 10k. Found my tdc tool. When I bring #1 to tdc my pointer and timing tape meet at 0*. What next? Degree the cam right?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 04-16-2013, 09:13 PM
vinniekq2's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: BC,Canada
Age: 56
Posts: 8,326
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 342
Thanked 814 Times in 780 Posts
you are degreening the ignition and verifying that the mark on the balancer is correct.If its SFI approved and has slipped,get warranty.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 04-16-2013, 09:20 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 18
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
So even though tdc on #1 lines up with 0 on my tape the balancer ring may of slipped? Is that what you are telling me? When #1 is tdc the #1 plug wire is about 1/8" retarded in relation to the rotor but my last timing was saying 44* is this info helps.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #14 (permalink)  
Old 04-16-2013, 09:27 PM
WDCreech's Avatar
Grumpy Old Goat Herder
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Anchorage, Alaska
Age: 70
Posts: 1,326
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 3
Thanked 32 Times in 30 Posts
Also, and I didn't see it mentioned, you don't want the vacuum advance hooked up when you set the ignition timing.

Bill
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #15 (permalink)  
Old 04-16-2013, 09:31 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 18
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
No vac advance. Distributor is locked out
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

Recent Engine posts with photos

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name (usually not your first and last name), your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Does MSD make a timing control the actually advances timing? Gene1000 Electrical 15 12-15-2011 01:08 PM
Help with timing Chain and timing cam install LXZ590 Engine 7 12-08-2006 10:01 PM
Timing sbc corvette timing at 12o clock on both gears? 85 vette Engine 21 12-22-2004 08:23 PM
trying to setting the timing on the timing chain and gears on a 74 ply with a 318 ReggieN Engine 1 10-05-2004 07:54 AM
Trust the timing light or the timing pointer? lluciano77 Engine 6 03-06-2004 01:35 AM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:13 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
Copyright Hotrodders.com 1999 - 2012. All Rights Reserved.