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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 12-27-2009, 12:47 AM
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Timming Issue, 350ci--- Engine Dies!!!

Can't figure this out.
Engine ran fine before we changed the timming to the correct spot

1968 Pontiac Firebird 350ci V8
2 speed Power Glide
2 barrel carb
Mech advance distributor w/ everything else stock

New plugs gaped at .035
New 7mm wires
New brass cap & rotor
Cleaned the small "titts" off the points w/ fine sand paper
Did not gap the points. Nor do I have a Dwel Meter
Set RPM at 1,000
No vaccum leaks we could find
Carb screws/nuts all tight
Air cleaner ok
Took it for a run. No problems

Decided to put my timming light on it
Timming was about 25-30 BTDC (HOW IT RUNS, I DON'T KNOW??)
No pinging at all!
Hooked up timming light on #1 plug wire (inductive pick-up light)
Book says 9 BTDC
I set it at about 10-12 BTDC with all vaccum hoses plugged

Engine started great.
Idels great
If I step on the gas too much, from a dead stop, the engine dies
I set the timming back to about 25-30 BTDC
Now it seems back to normal.
Still a slight stutter when I step on it from a dead stop only. (Normal as before)

Any ideas???
Garett

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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 12-27-2009, 12:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gman536
Can't figure this out.
Engine ran fine before we changed the timming to the correct spot

1968 Pontiac Firebird 350ci V8
2 speed Power Glide
2 barrel carb
Mech advance distributor w/ everything else stock

New plugs gaped at .035
New 7mm wires
New brass cap & rotor
Cleaned the small "titts" off the points w/ fine sand paper
Did not gap the points. Nor do I have a Dwel Meter
Set RPM at 1,000
No vaccum leaks we could find
Carb screws/nuts all tight
Air cleaner ok
Took it for a run. No problems

Decided to put my timming light on it
Timming was about 25-30 BTDC (HOW IT RUNS, I DON'T KNOW??)
No pinging at all!
Hooked up timming light on #1 plug wire (inductive pick-up light)
Book says 9 BTDC
I set it at about 10-12 BTDC with all vaccum hoses plugged

Engine started great.
Idels great
If I step on the gas too much, from a dead stop, the engine dies
I set the timming back to about 25-30 BTDC
Now it seems back to normal.
Still a slight stutter when I step on it from a dead stop only. (Normal as before)

Any ideas???
Garett
You have the timing very retarded, having set the timing w/the vacuum advance connected.

When you set the timing, the vacuum advance has to be disconnected and plugged. Then set it to 9 BTDC (or whatever).

If the vac. adv. WAS disconnected, the mechanical advance springs could be so light that they're allowing timing to come in at idle speeds or the mechanical advance mechanism is sticking/dirty/rusty.
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Old 12-28-2009, 10:50 AM
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Gapped the points to .016
The advance weights are not stuck.
I even lubed the swivel points on the weights with a non-oil lube. (RemOil)
I will check the advance springs.

I disconnected the vacc hose during timming and it changed nothing.
I sucked and blew on the hose end and the timming did not change.

I think the dist. diaphram is bad.

The vacc hose goes from the dist. vacc can, to a 6 connection water heated operated vacc valve at the front of the intake next to the water neck.
There was no vacc suction on this valve when we checked it.
The engine was cold.

Is this connection correct?
Should'nt it be to a constant vacc sourse?
It seems that the vacc to the dist. would only work when this valve opens when the motor is warm.

Garett
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Old 12-28-2009, 05:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gman536
Is this connection correct?
Should'nt it be to a constant vacc sourse?
It seems that the vacc to the dist. would only work when this valve opens when the motor is warm.

Garett
The 6-way vac. temp. switch should have a full time vac. source running to it, this will 'turn on' the various other ports (EGR, vac. adv., heat riser, etc.) when the water temp comes up. The connections might all be correct-these things often got mucked with during tune ups by those w/no clue.

For now, just run a full-time vac. source from one of the carb vac. ports to the distributor vac. advance can. Just be sure that you use a full time port, not one for the EGR or a ported source.

And you will need a vac. adv. can that works. Points-type dist. use a different can than an HEI.

Which brings us to the distributor in general. Unless this is a resto-deal, look for a non feedback (most pre-'81, some post-'81 trucks) distributor to replace that old attention-demanding points distributor.
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Old 12-28-2009, 06:36 PM
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COLBALT327
If I have to replace the vacc can, do I would have to pull the dist?
Or can it be done left in place without alot of hassel?

If it would be easier to do it pulled.
Wouldn't I be better to install a new HEI dist?
If yes, which one? There are so many available.

Can I run a HEI for now with the stock Pontiac coil?
Or should I get a Accel or Mallory?
I want to do this right.
Not cut corners.

We have a SBC 350 4 bolt main that we are going to build and put in it.
Will a Pontiac 350 dist fit a SBC?

THANK YOU VERY MUCH for you knowledge and time to answer my questions.

Here is what me and my son are doing this year.
Not quite done.
Got the motor and tranny left to do.



Garett
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Last edited by gman536; 12-28-2009 at 06:44 PM.
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  #6 (permalink)  
Old 12-28-2009, 07:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gman536
COLBALT327
If I have to replace the vacc can, do I would have to pull the dist?
It might be a little hard to reach, but can certainly be done w/the dist. in the engine. Get a magnet on a stick and keep it handy for the screws that always seem to get loose.

Quote:
Wouldn't I be better to install a new HEI dist?
If yes, which one? There are so many available.
I think replacing the point type dist. w/an HEI would by far be the better choice- unless originality is important to you.

You want a distributor that has the vacuum advance and mechanical advance built into it. These are '80-older for use w/o a computer. Some trucks also used the older style HEI, up well into the 80's.

The HEI cannot use the same wire that is used to power the points dist.- it has resistance built into it.
HERE is an article that talks about replacing the wire, etc.

Quote:
Can I run a HEI for now with the stock Pontiac coil?
Or should I get a Accel or Mallory?
I want to do this right.
Not cut corners.
An HEI has the coil in the cap- an OEM coil is fine for use up to about 6000 RPM in my experience. There are fancy-looking replacements available, just avoid ACCEL.

Quote:
We have a SBC 350 4 bolt main that we are going to build and put in it.
Will a Pontiac 350 dist fit a SBC?
No, Pontiac distributors are different than SBC- but the 'guts' will interchange (points type to points type, or HEI to HEI)- just not the shaft or housing.

Quote:
Here is what me and my son are doing this year.
Garett
Sweet! I hope it is as much enjoyment as you two can stand!

Good luck.
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Old 12-28-2009, 07:18 PM
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You can install petronix ignition in place of the points, And you can do it with distributer in better if out but not bad while it's still in. It takes about 10 to 20 minutes depending on you. I have ran them in several cars with no problems. http://www.google.com/products?hl=en...ed=0CCIQrQQwAg . Hope this helps it's real easy to install. Just two wires a few washers goes in right where the old points where at buy the kit and get the blaster coil to match you will be ready to go in no time.
Cole
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Old 12-28-2009, 08:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eloc431962
You can install petronix ignition in place of the points, And you can do it with distributer in better if out but not bad while it's still in. It takes about 10 to 20 minutes depending on you. I have ran them in several cars with no problems. http://www.google.com/products?hl=en...ed=0CCIQrQQwAg . Hope this helps it's real easy to install. Just two wires a few washers goes in right where the old points where at buy the kit and get the blaster coil to match you will be ready to go in no time.
Cole
Good idea, one I really never considered because the HEI's are so cheap.

But anyway, what is required for powering it- does it require a new 12V non resistor power wire? Or can it run off of the points-type resistor wire that is already in his F-Bird?
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Old 12-28-2009, 08:33 PM
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So I can leave the stock dist in place and just replace the guts??
Why buy 2 dist when I'm going to replace the Pont 350 with a SBC 350.

Glad I decided to come on line and ask you guys

I was a mechanic 30 years ago.
Worked for a school dist.
It is amazing how much basic knowledge I've lost since then.
Sucks getting old!!!

This project with my 17 yo son has beeen a blast
Hope I can remember most of it when I start building the motor.
If not, You guys are close by

Thanks again.
Garett
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Old 12-28-2009, 09:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gman536
So I can leave the stock dist in place and just replace the guts??
If you're replacing the engine anyway, just use the points. Clean up the mechanical advance, buy a ~$10 vac. can and let 'er rip!
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Old 12-28-2009, 09:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cobalt327
Good idea, one I really never considered because the HEI's are so cheap.

But anyway, what is required for powering it- does it require a new 12V non resistor power wire? Or can it run off of the points-type resistor wire that is already in his F-Bird?
You use the stock distributer /cap/wires it looks like orignal set-up when done . Everything you need is in the box, I can;t remember exactly how it worked with the resistor but if i remember correct it's all in the box for whatever you have resistor or not, It explains it pretty well how to install it either with or without the resistor to you also. Heres another site for it also. http://www.cbsperformance.com/ignitor.shtml .

Cole
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Old 12-28-2009, 09:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eloc431962
You use the stock distributer /cap/wires it looks like orignal set-up when done . Everything you need is in the box, I can;t remember exactly how it worked with the resistor but if i remember correct it's all in the box for whatever you have resistor or not, It explains it pretty well how to install it either with or without the resistor to you also. Heres another site for it also. http://www.cbsperformance.com/ignitor.shtml .

Cole
Thanks, I'll look into it.
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