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Old 02-19-2006, 09:24 AM
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Titanium Vavles w/Iron Seats??

I've just got my order shipped for a set of Brodix CNC'd Track 1 heads (215cc) and I am in the process of purchasing a set of reconditioned titanium valves from Jarvis Performance (already have a certified check for the valves), but I'm not sure if I should be concerned with the valve and seat combination. Here are the specs for the guides and seats from Brodix:
The BRODIX Track 1 comes with phosphorous bronze valve guides and ductile iron hardened valve seats installed for unleaded fuel.
I've noticed that most builders use copper beryllium seats with these valves, but can I get away with using the iron seats? Will I have any problems with wear and durability or with heat transfer with these seats? The valve job has already been done on the heads with a Serdi machine, but I'm not sure home many angles were put on the seats... I was told to use a set of valves with a 30* underhead angle. Are there different angles cut on titanium vs. SS valves, or does this not matter?
I have a hyd. roller cam and the comp beehive single ovate springs w/titanium retainers, so I'm trying to run a light weight quick revving valve train. Do any of you see any problems with this setup? Thanks as always for your help.

-Rick

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Old 02-19-2006, 11:01 AM
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They'll work. I've built alot of racing engines that had titanium valves and regular seat inserts.


Brian
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Old 02-19-2006, 11:50 AM
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i was told, by someone that seemed to know what he was talking about, that titanuim valves are BAD for the street. true ?
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Old 02-19-2006, 12:54 PM
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I wouldn't use them in a street engine. Titanium has to be coated to survive the bearing surface in the valve guide.

Titanium is very lightweight, and that's it's advantage. I would only use it in a pro-street type of application where it really never sees any miles.


Brian
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Old 02-19-2006, 02:17 PM
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I wouldn't use em on any application that wasn't using valves that were bigger then say 2.30" at 8000 plus RPM. If you ain't at least here, I'd divert the additional valve money elsewhere in the budget.

I have Titanium intake valves on my Blown Nitro heads but they're 2.40" at 9000+ RPM.
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Old 02-19-2006, 09:58 PM
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Thanks for the replies. I questioned the need for the QPQ coating on these valves and I was told that the coating is ~.050" and you really need to cut into the valves before you ever truly start cutting into the actual titanium material ("emits a brilliant white spark"). So, I am told with the small amount of media blasting used to clean these valves, the coating is still in good shape. Any thoughts?

Also, here is some info I pulled up from Del West:

"When titanium valves were first introduced years ago, many people were running tool steel or induction hardened seats with a hardness of around 60 Rockwell C. These proved to be too hard for titanium valves, so many racers started using softer ductile or nodular iron seats with a hardness of around 32 Rockwell C.

"Titanium valves are harder to cool than stainless steel valves, so we looked at a variety of materials to see if we could find something that would provide increased cooling, especially for the exhaust valve. Initially, we tried a beryllium copper exhaust seat with nodular iron intake seats. But the slight difference in expansion rates between the beryllium copper and iron seats created a cracking problem in the head. Using beryllium copper for both seats solved the cracking problem, but we also learned that the alloy we were using for the exhaust side didn't work as well on the intake side. As a result, we came up with different beryllium copper alloys for the intake and exhaust seats."

"Beryllium copper works great in a racing engine with titanium valves, but there is no advantage to using beryllium copper with steel valves because you don't really need the extra cooling. Beryllium copper seats would also require more maintenance in a street engine than ductile iron seats," says Haumont.

It appears that ductile irons seats were used in the early days of titanium valves, so I assume they will work, but may not have the cooling properties needed for these valves. This is NOT an all out racing motor, just a hot N/A street/strip motor, w/a small shot (150-200) in the future. Do you think the cooling will cause any problems for me (are the cooling effects different between stainless and titanium)? Thanks a mil!

-Rick
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