Tons of questions for Dan & others with knowledge - Page 2 - Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board
Hotrodders.com -- Hot Rod Forum



Register FAQ Search Today's Posts Unanswered Posts Auto Escrow Insurance Auto Loans
Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board > Tech Help> Interior
User Name
Password
lost password?   |   register now

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #16 (permalink)  
Old 09-02-2010, 06:50 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: SC
Posts: 51
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanks, I see some specs on material that says it is rubbed with a steel brush and others say canvas or something. That is not a good comparison for sure.

Does the urethane breath better and feel more comfortable than vinyl in hot weather? I want to use something cheaper and easier to work with than leather on my first job but my wife keeps insisting that vinyl will be sweaty and uncomfortable in the heat and humidity we have. I know that was true of the vinyl she remembers from years ago but is that the case with the newer ones too? I would think vinyl is vinyl and it would be but have no clue about the new stuff.

I also see that there are a few vinyl/urethane combinations available. You ever tried one?

And one last question for this time. Is there any problem with heat expansion, flexabilty, or anything else that would come from using a very small amount of vinyl with a urethane just to bring a touch of body color into the upholstery? I know that the wear characteristics are different, but other than that is what I am asking.

    Advertisement
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #17 (permalink)  
Old 09-02-2010, 07:25 AM
DanTwoLakes's Avatar
Hotrodders.com Moderator
 
Last wiki edit: Contact adhesive
Last journal entry: 49 Packard
Last photo:
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Lake Tomahawk, Wisconsin
Age: 64
Posts: 5,855
Wiki Edits: 22

Thanks: 0
Thanked 150 Times in 137 Posts
Part of my department at a company I worked for did it's own fabric testing, so I know how it's done. Unless something has changed, they don't do long term testing with a steel brush, it is done by rubbing it with different fabrics to simulate somebody sitting on it. Majestic's test was done with #8 cotton duck (like a canvas).

Vinyl and Ultraleather don't really breathe. There are some that claim to be "breathable", but the word breathable is always in quotation marks, so what they mean by breathable, I don't know. The only thing I can think of is that they're talking about the backing on the fabric. Good leather breathes because it has pores just like human skin. Some leathers don't breathe either. Ultraleather claims that in tests of seats done in vinyl, leather, and Ultraleather the Ultraleather was 13% cooler than leather, and 20% cooler than vinyl.

As far as combining Ultraleather with vinyl, it is done all the time to get specific colors that may not be available in one or the other. Any time you sew two different fabrics together, there is a chance they just won't sew together well. If you can stay with all of one or the other, there will be no difference when you sew the two parts together, and that's where you might get a problem with puckering. One will be a little stiffer than the other. I'm not saying this will happen, only that it can happen.

I have seen products that are 50/50 recycled leather and polyurethane, but I have not seen any 50/50 vinyl and polyurethane.

Here is a picture of Naugahyde Majestic, BTW.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0775.jpg
Views:	95
Size:	140.4 KB
ID:	47845  
__________________
__________________________________

No one lives forever, the trick is creating something that will.
__________________________________

Last edited by DanTwoLakes; 09-02-2010 at 07:56 AM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #18 (permalink)  
Old 09-02-2010, 02:40 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: SC
Posts: 51
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
if that photo shows all the colors in Majestic it may not be an option for me. I do not see anything that looks grey in there. are there any greys in it? where can I order a sample card from?

On another subject, you posted some answers about a quietsew 4000 on another thread in here somewhere. I want to make my machine stich one at a time if i need to. There are some videos of guys sewing on youtube doing french seams and stuff around sharp corners where they literly sew like they are turning the wheel by hand but both hands are on the work. I mean they will slow down and make one slow stitch at a time. I know that Sailright makes an SCR controlled PM motor system that will do that for 500 bucks but i do not think all these machines have one. What else will do that? would a sewquiet 3000 do it if I could still find one?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #19 (permalink)  
Old 09-02-2010, 05:24 PM
DanTwoLakes's Avatar
Hotrodders.com Moderator
 
Last wiki edit: Contact adhesive
Last journal entry: 49 Packard
Last photo:
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Lake Tomahawk, Wisconsin
Age: 64
Posts: 5,855
Wiki Edits: 22

Thanks: 0
Thanked 150 Times in 137 Posts
The sample in the middle of the page is grey, it's just hard to tell. They don't send out sample cards to anybody that asks for one. You would need to get one from a supplier that deals with upholstery shops............ that's why the best you can do would probably be a picture on the internet without going to a very friendly upholstery shop. You need to look at more vinyl and polyurethane samples in person to find what color you want.

The basic Sailrite sewing machine (at $500) is nothing more than a simple (although very good) portable machine. To get it to act like a real live industrial sewing machine with a servo motor (what they call an SCR PM, which stands for permanent magnet which means it is a heavy duty home sewing machine DC motor) would require you to spend as much, or more, than a new industrial machine from an industrial sewing machine store. Their advertising is very good, but the technology they are selling has been around for 25 years, and is a step back from a real live servo motor. Their machines run at 800 RPMs, powered by a 1/8th HP motor, which is less than 1/4 of what a normal industrial machine runs from a standard 1/2 hp motor. That is probably what they are sewing with on You Tube. That is not all bad for someone who is a beginner, but it means that they need to gear down their machine by 75% to do what any industrial sewing machine can do without breaking a sweat. Torque is in relation to speed. The less speed, the more torque. This means that at the same top speed, their machines have less than 1/4 of the power of a 50 year old Singer 111W, or any industrial sewing machine. You are not talking apples to apples when you bring the Sailrite machine into the picture. That is not to say that it isn't an excellent machine, it is, but it is not even a close match for any run of the mill industrial sewing machine, unless you spend the same amount of money for each one. You ALWAYS get what you pay for.

The Sew Quiet 3000 is not available anywhere any more except used on E-bay or Craig's list. There is only so slow you need to go, and the next generation of the Sew Quiet (the 4000) will only go at a snail's speed. My guess is that the pros who have used the 3000 said "I don't need this to go that slow" and the next generation was speeded up. At some point, it needs to be about operator skill, and not about the sewing machine itself. There is no idiot-proof industrial sewing machine, they are made to go production line fast, by skilled operators, not slow by beginners.
__________________
__________________________________

No one lives forever, the trick is creating something that will.
__________________________________

Last edited by DanTwoLakes; 09-02-2010 at 05:44 PM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #20 (permalink)  
Old 09-02-2010, 09:56 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: SC
Posts: 51
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Im not talking about the sailright machine. They have a 1/3 hp motor and controller package that uses SCR technology to control the speed. It can be purchased for any machine. I have worked for 15 years with electric cars and know that much torque is available from this setup. i was thinking about purchasing it to put on my Consew 226 instead of a servo motor but it just cost so much at 500 bucks for the motor. I was just wondering if you had ever seen one and if I could get a servo motor to perform like the sailright mcscr setup, saving some big bucks. look at the link posted below to see the setup and click on the blue video tab to see it work. There is another video on their sight compairing it to a servo motor also. just interested in knowing if your servo motor will slow down and run like the scr.

http://www.sailrite.com/MC-SCR-Power-System-110-Volt

By the way, most of the guys that I saw sewing that slow on youtube are turning the wheel by hand. I just thought both hands were on the work.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #21 (permalink)  
Old 09-03-2010, 12:55 AM
DanTwoLakes's Avatar
Hotrodders.com Moderator
 
Last wiki edit: Contact adhesive
Last journal entry: 49 Packard
Last photo:
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Lake Tomahawk, Wisconsin
Age: 64
Posts: 5,855
Wiki Edits: 22

Thanks: 0
Thanked 150 Times in 137 Posts
That is nothing more than an old school DC variable speed control with a DC motor. The DC motor is what makes the package expensive. I have seen many DC motors and DC motor controllers, but never on a sewing machine. A 1/3 HP DC motor will produce 1 ft/lb. (12 inch/lbs) of torque at 1800 RPMs, just like an AC motor, and more at lower speeds.

A good quality 1/2 HP constant torque (1 1/2 ft/lbs or 18 inch/lbs of torque all the time) servo motor will work much better for you on a sewing machine than that setup and will save you $300.
__________________
__________________________________

No one lives forever, the trick is creating something that will.
__________________________________
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #22 (permalink)  
Old 09-03-2010, 06:52 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: SC
Posts: 51
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Than the next question would be which servo motor would give the slowest usable speed, the 4000 or something different?

Of course I know the smallest possible pulley for the motor will help too.

Last edited by cpg2; 09-03-2010 at 06:58 AM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #23 (permalink)  
Old 09-03-2010, 07:46 AM
DanTwoLakes's Avatar
Hotrodders.com Moderator
 
Last wiki edit: Contact adhesive
Last journal entry: 49 Packard
Last photo:
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Lake Tomahawk, Wisconsin
Age: 64
Posts: 5,855
Wiki Edits: 22

Thanks: 0
Thanked 150 Times in 137 Posts
I really don't know anything about any of the other servos out there, but the Reliable Sew Quiet 4000 will operate very slowly, and you can cut that speed down significantly with a small pulley on the motor. You can also adjust your foot pedal's connection to the motor and there are adjustments to the spring that is on the motor's actuation lever that will slow it down even more.
__________________
__________________________________

No one lives forever, the trick is creating something that will.
__________________________________
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #24 (permalink)  
Old 09-07-2010, 09:35 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: SC
Posts: 51
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Another question I am looking at some Syntec Optima polyurethane fabric that I can get a great deal on. Know anything about this stuff? specs are below but when it gives abrasion by some standard # it means nothing to me. Are these good specs comparing well to ultraleather?
SPECIFICATIONS
Width: 54"
Content: Face 100% polyurethane. Backing reinforced rayon.
Weight: 15.8 oz. per linear yard.
Tensile: ASTMD2209
Tear: ASTMD2262
Burst: ASTMD3786
Abrasion: ASTMD3884
Flex: ASTMD2813
Crocking: AATCC 8
Flammability: CA 117 MVSS 3002
Can be treated to meet FAR 25.853(b)

also looking at some Architex Authentec polyurethane. OK stuff? Does the 100000 Wyzenbeek mean 100000 rubs of canvas compaired to 400000 to 500000 for some others. See specs below


Width 54" Finish none Booked in Architex
Contract Classics 4
Repeat none V - none H Backing none
Railroaded No Application Upholstery
Outdoor
Cruise ship

Weight 1.300 lbs./yard Lightfastness 500 hours AATCC 16
Durability 100,000 Wyzenbeek Cleaning code W
Contents 46% Rayon
45% Polyurethane
9% Polyester
Fire codes Cal TB 117
UFAC Class 1
ASTM E84 Adherd
IMO
MVSS 302
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #25 (permalink)  
Old 09-08-2010, 08:09 AM
DanTwoLakes's Avatar
Hotrodders.com Moderator
 
Last wiki edit: Contact adhesive
Last journal entry: 49 Packard
Last photo:
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Lake Tomahawk, Wisconsin
Age: 64
Posts: 5,855
Wiki Edits: 22

Thanks: 0
Thanked 150 Times in 137 Posts
The Syntec Optima is more like Ultraleather. Cal 117 TB is a California technical bulletin on flammability standards. The MVSS 302 ratings mean they are acceptable under motor vehicle safety standards criteria for use in cars. The FAR 25.853 mention means it can be treated to pass the vertical burn test of federal aviation regulations for use in airplanes. There are other specific flammability standards in New York and Boston.

It is hard for me to believe that one 100% polyurethane fabric is 4 times better than another in the same test. The only way to know what was used used to do the rubbing in the Wyzenbeek test is if they tell you.

I don't know anything about Architex Authentec except it is not a 100% polyurethane fabric, and looks to be more of a contract type fabric geared for use in offices, hospitals, etc.
__________________
__________________________________

No one lives forever, the trick is creating something that will.
__________________________________

Last edited by DanTwoLakes; 09-08-2010 at 08:26 AM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

Recent Interior posts with photos

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name (usually not your first and last name), your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Is Knowledge Base included in a Search? cboy Hotrodders Site Suggestions and Help 2 01-07-2005 05:23 PM
Interior -- Common Questions Jon Interior 0 02-12-2004 04:38 PM
Paint/bodywork questions babyface Body - Exterior 3 05-16-2003 06:05 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:56 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
Copyright Hotrodders.com 1999 - 2012. All Rights Reserved.