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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 05-10-2004, 05:08 PM
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Disc with a hole in it is the mounting plate that the mechanical parts of the thermostat are fastened to. Remove the spring and the valve so all that's left is a round disc with a hole in it.

Get rid of that electric pump. You'l be screwed when it dies. Parts house ain't gonna have one of those in stock.

Larry

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Old 05-10-2004, 05:24 PM
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Is there any mechanical way to tell what cam is installed without removing it?
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Old 05-10-2004, 06:57 PM
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You would need to attach a degree wheel to the balancer and find all the specs by first finding top dead center, then turning the crank and measuring the lift, duration, and opening and closing points of atleast one pair of valve lobes for one cylinder. You can do this on the rocker directly above the pushrod using a dial indicator, PROVIDING there is NO play in the lifters.

If you have hydralic lifters, it may not be too accurate as compared to solids. Best way for hydralics is to remove the intake and take the readings off of the edge of the lifter as it moves up and down.

Mark

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Originally posted by coldknock
Disc with a hole in it is the mounting plate that the mechanical parts of the thermostat are fastened to. Remove the spring and the valve so all that's left is a round disc with a hole in it.
Larry
Really curious on that.
What is the purpose of having just a big hole in the middle of the thermostat? If its too big, it will run too cool. (providing the cooling system is sufficient for the engine.)

If its too small, it will over heat. Seems to me that you would have to find the exact size hole that works for the engine/car/weather/humidity/speed/load/etc.etc. combinations, all except the first 2 change daily.

Mark

Last edited by Jmark; 05-10-2004 at 06:57 PM.
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Old 05-10-2004, 08:24 PM
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The purpose is for a restriction. No different than having the thermostat in an open position.

The restriction is needed for two reasons.
1. To regulate flow, water moving too fast in the block and heads creates turbulence. The stagnant pockets of turbulent coolant creates hotspots.

2. To create enough resistance for the pump to work. Without some pressure to work against the water pump will cavitate at higher speeds. That's just water being spun in a circle inside the pump housing, not creating enough actual flow to cool the engine.

The only reason not to use a thermostat on a street car is if you have more cylinder pressure than the fuel can work with. This seems to be the case with this gentlemans engine.

Larry
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Old 05-10-2004, 09:15 PM
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only things i'd do is get rid of the electric h2o pump in favor of a mechanical one, and definately determine the cr of the motor so you can determine what octane gas to use.....

basically, what they ^^^^^^^^ said.
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Old 05-10-2004, 11:45 PM
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Why is everyone saying all these bad things about running an electric pump on this ride? From the sounds of it, it's mainly a weekend terror anyways. I can understand if it were an everyday driver, but even that I don't really understand. If everyone is worried about an electric water pump, why isn't it bad to run an electric fuel pump on the street? Are the water pumps that behind in technology where it won't hold up to constant use like a fuel pump? I know you can't trust the ads all the time, but metzeire claims that thier's are good for street use. Has anyone had a bad experience with them?
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Old 05-11-2004, 12:34 AM
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The problem with electric water pumps (even more so the belt driven ones) is that they do not flow enough water. The older electric water pump were made for drag race use only. The car will over heat on the street and the motors were not made for continuos use. The only pumps that have been some what successful are the two I mentioned before (csi and Meziere), they flow more that the older pumps but, even at that they will not flow as well as a good high flow mechanical pump (Edelbrock, Stewart, and a few others).

One other thing is they are set at a certain rpm so they only flow one rate all the time. This can be good on a drag car when trying to cool it off between runs but, other than that not ideal for the street.

I don't know of anyone with a treu street car that has been able to get away with an electric water pump. I know several that have tried.

Royce
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 05-11-2004, 12:59 AM
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Sorry you got such a finicky beast...Sounds like a real pain to figure out how to make streetable....
I could take this hot, overcammed, overcompressioned motor off your hands in trade for a rebuilt truck 350 I just picked up..!!!!
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Old 05-11-2004, 07:00 AM
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Well, I have made some decisions, thank's to all who posted replies.

First off, the engine was regularly strarted and ran while in storage, at least enough that I doubt the springs have set, as it runs so good now.

I am going to remove the valve covers this weekend and gauge all the lifters to see if there is a pattern that emerges, which I would assume will happen. Then at least I'll have a starting point for reference, and I'll worry about the cam later. I have started an internet and mail search for the original builder, who knows, I may find the guy!

If anyone knows Mark Breiner, formerly of Oldsmar, FL, or Bob Benedict, formerly of Chattanooga, TN, please let me know how to reach them. These fellows may have some detailed knowledge of this engine.

As for the electric water pump, I'm sticking with it. It really looks cool! I have driven this car at 65 mph and the tach reads 3300 rpm. Certainly too high for a long drive. Howeever, I will be driving this car on the weeekends to cruise in's and local shows, again 30-50 miles. There are plenty of "backroads" to avoid interstate speeds, and it'll be a blast to do it. I really don't plan on racing this car, but will keep my foot in it on the backroads enough to keep the carbon burnt out. Maybe a rear gear change will be in order to lower the rpm's.

As for an engine swap, I'm not ready to throw in the towel just yet. I built a 67 Firebird 400 right off the show room floor that ran in the 11's every weekend. I'll get this mouse under control!

Thanks again guys!
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old 05-11-2004, 08:41 AM
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If it is a Meizier water pump, you have nothing to worry about. They make the best. If it is a Chinese copy. . .you better remove it.

As far as solid or hyd. Just pop the valve cover and take a feeler gauge and check the clearance between the rocker and the valve. No clearance when valve shut, hyd. clearance, solid.

Chris
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Old 05-13-2004, 02:28 PM
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'66 Chevy II SS

Congratulations dude. That is a very cool car. Wish I had one. I would agree with the post that said the timing is probably retarded causing the engine to run a little warmer than usual. A lot of racers used to do that in the old days with high compression engines. They would retard the timing till they got to the track and filled up with race fuel and bump the timing back up.
I will agree that a solid lift cam is not as good as a hydraulic for street use, but they will work with a little occasional maintenance. Didn't the '69 Chevy 302 and '70 LT1 come with solid lift cams from the factory? If you want lots of RPM's, a solid lift cam is the way to go.
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Old 05-14-2004, 01:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by gt2betubbed
Why is everyone saying all these bad things about running an electric pump on this ride?
my experience with electric pumps has been only for cooling between rounds at the strip. i've never seen the meziere (sp) but according to the literature, it'll do the trick.
my only misgivings about an electric pump are;
1 if it goes out, it goes completely out. i've not been stranded by
a mech. pump. yet.
2 the price.
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old 05-15-2004, 09:24 AM
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Found Mark Breiner, got allot of information about the engine, but still no cam manufacturer, or specifications. Mark remembered .024" on the valve lash, which allot of you posted would be within range, so that's it then!

I do have the name of the builder now, Jeff Bonk, of Bonk Racing Products, located somewhere in Florida. I doubt that he would remember this build from 1999, but I will do the research.

I have made a couple changes in my thinking since my last post. I am going back to a mechanical water pump, and a 180 thermostat.

I also want to change the oil, which brings up a delima. Should I use synthetic or natural?
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 05-15-2004, 09:51 AM
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how many miles on the motor?
what oil are you using now?

if its a fairly new motor, you can try synthetic, if it's got some miles on it, synthetic might leak.......

maybe a synthetic blend?

myself, i use valvoline. regular old fossil oil.
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old 05-15-2004, 10:38 AM
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Glad to see you decided to swap out the water pump (wise choice if you ask me) also a very good choice to go with a 180* stat.

Well now you know it is a solid cam and you have the lash setting, so that is great.

Since the engine has been together for a while I think I would stick with non-synthetic oil. The gaskets and seals are "older" and synthetic has a way of exposing any weakness in sealing.

I highly recommend Valvoline Racing oil (GOOD STUFF), comes in a gray bottle. As far as viscosity I would run either 10-30 or straight 30. Check you oil pressure and see how it looks before and after, that way you can get an idea of what the engine wants (clearances) if the pressure is too low with the 10-30 then you may need to step up to 20-50 (I highly doubt you will need to unless it was built real loose).

Royce
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