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View Poll Results: IF YOU WERE GOVERNOR, WHAT WOULD YOU DO?
PARDON HIM BECAUSE I'M AGAINST THE DEATH PENALTY 1 2.22%
PARDON HIM BECAUSE HE'S A CHANGED MAN 3 6.67%
EXECUTE HIM, I DON'T CARE HOW HE'S CHANGED 41 91.11%
Voters: 45. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 12-12-2005, 05:09 PM
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Tookie Williams

I've been following this Tookie Williams story. How do you guys feel about capital punishment and do you think that there should ever be a place for clemency even if the convicted did perpetrate the crime?

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Old 12-12-2005, 05:27 PM
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What bothers me the most is his crimes were done 20 years ago.
If we wait much longer he will just die of old age.

Has he gone the straight and narrow now? Of course everyone the gets caught is sorry for what they did and most important, sorry because they got caught.

They should get one trial and if convicted, it should be sent to supreme court and thats the end of appeals.
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Old 12-12-2005, 05:37 PM
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My feelings are mixed on this particular issue. I don't know the particulars of the murders that took place, but I have several strong feelings about capital punishment.

1. Personally, if It were up to me, I would abolish the death penalty. I don't think it does a whole lot other than costing tax payers millions and millions of dollars. We execute a small token of those actually on death row and those few cost us millions of dollars to defend them.

2. Since we do have the death penalty, I think it's application should have to be used with only the most concrete of evidence. Multiple eye-witnesses, surveilance cameras, that type of evidence. If the evidence that convicts is circumstantial, I do not believe that the death penalty should be applied.

3. China executes more people than any other nation on earth. I feel that we should separate ourselves from the rest of the barbaric countries and do away with the death penalty.

4. As far as Tookie Williams goes, or Karla Faye Tucker, etc.

If clemency is available, shouldn't it be applied from time to time? Do we have absolutely no mercy for anybody?
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Old 12-12-2005, 05:48 PM
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I agree with you and sometimes I think the death penalty should be abolished.
For one its not cost effective like you say and second I would never want to kill someone that was Innocent. (I know we have)

BUT!!!!!!!!!!!
If were going to have one then lets use it and why should it take 10 years plus to fry one of these dudes?

Now I want to ask you about these cowards.
If I was on death row or in for life I would want to be killed.
What is it with these killers that all of a sudden start carrying a Bible and crying and pleading to spare their life.
I don't get it!
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Old 12-12-2005, 06:17 PM
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I think that we are really addressing two separate issues here.

One of them is the application and amount of time it takes to carry out executions.

The other issue I brought up was clemency. Clemency is a tool that is at the disposal of the Governor. I know there surely are plenty of scum out there that probably deserve to be put to death. I'm sure that there are plenty of prisoners who committed heinous murders and then continued to live heinous lives in prison.

However, I do still believe in the concept of redemption and forgiveness in certain instances.

When I hear about someone like Tookie Williams who truly does appear to have become a positive person, and a changed man, then I feel that in certain situations that the clemency power should be exercised. Why have the power to do it, if you never use it?

Personally, I would have alot of trouble being a Governor, knowing that I was the last word on whether someone died or not. I would probably just commute them all to life in prison and sleep better at night.

It's a tough subject, but shedding more blood cannot bring murder victims back from the ground. If someone killed one of my loved ones, I can't say that I would feel better if their killer was put to death. It wouldn't bring me justice or happiness. Certainly I would have alot of animosity towards a murderer, but not to the point of killing them.
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Old 12-12-2005, 07:39 PM
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Damn, for once the rehab program works then we kill the poor SOB. I believe in death row, but what I dont agree with is being put to death by a imperfect justice system.
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Old 12-12-2005, 07:44 PM
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Tonight at 12:01 A.M. PST, the greatest nation on earth will kill a human being. While we are sleeping, or dreaming or watching the tube, this guy is going to die.

"I guess he had it coming."


WE ALL HAVE IT COMING
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Old 12-12-2005, 08:02 PM
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I have to say this even though people believe different. Tookie has never admitted guilt and has never said gee I regret killing those men and being the leader of all the rest of his gang that have killed people under him. I personally have no sympathy for him or any other killer. The bible does not say ;thou shall not kill (this is only said in these words for children) It say's thou shall not murder. Justice is mine Saith the Lord, I say let him meet the maker for what he has done and let the Lord have justice. I'm sorry if this offends anyone, but this is my opinion.

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Old 12-12-2005, 08:05 PM
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You know when I think about it he has done alot of good while in prison, but think about what he has done. Not only did he supposedly kill four people, but he also created one of the most viscious gangs in america. How many people were killed because a Crip member wanted to be in the crew. Their blood is also on his hands.

God Forgives, but I think he will be there tonight face to face.
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Old 12-12-2005, 08:07 PM
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you took the words outta my mouth 30.... see post.HAHA
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Old 12-12-2005, 09:27 PM
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well, if you're a Christian the choice is made for you. You cannot support the killing of another human being and be a Christian. These two are mutually exclusive groups. Nowhere in the new testament will you find Jesus giving those around him the right to pick and choose which lives to end. I hate to sound cheesy, but being a Christian is living a "Christlike" life. Put tooky on a bed and Jesus' finger on the lethal injection button. Can you honestly tell me you think that button would get pressed?

Secondly, and similarly, pro-life and pro-capital punishment philosophically mutually exclusive groups.

Further, I am on board with NAIRB. What does it solve or prove? You killed some folks, but our gang is bigger than yours so now we win? I think most people who support this punishment don't get anything else out of it than a sense of basil satisfaction in vengeance. A publicized action of society's vengeance? Haven't we as a culture moved beyond such spectacles?

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Old 12-12-2005, 09:57 PM
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Taxpayers have spent probably over 1.5 million dollars housing, feeding and keeping Tookie from doing harm to anyone else in the general public. Taxpayers money has kept him healthy, entertained and given him an opportunity to further his education. During the 25 years that he has been on death row, if he was truly innocent, someone would have come forward to prove this. He has used his time, unfettered by the responsibilities that we, on the outside, must fulfill every day, to write some books that may be instrumental in keeping someone out of a gang. Wonderful. That may repay some of his debt to society but will never bring peace to those who's lives he took or caused to be taken. His execution will serve as 1 more example of the reason to not take someones life. His writings will then have so much more impact. I'm glad that Arnie is going to do the right thing for a change.
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Old 12-12-2005, 10:23 PM
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Tookie

Quote:
However, I do still believe in the concept of redemption and forgiveness in certain instances.
I am by no means a religous person. And have never been to church. But let God have redemption and forgiveness for someone if they have truely changed. I too would change my outlook on life after sitting in my cell for over 20 years.

Tookie was much more than a murderer. He was the beginning of something much bigger than his crimes.

Take all the death row inmates and lifers and send them to Iraq so our good, upstanding men and women can come home.......
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Old 12-13-2005, 01:04 AM
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You opened a can of worms today, Nairb. I don't like the death penalty as I feel it is barbaric, but I also feel there are people on this earth that are just flat out evil and have no reason to keep them on the face of the earth. Face it, we all live in a prison of our own, we have to get up and work in the morning, bust our arses to make a living and in this way we support the prisons with our taxes, which just pisses me off. These guys in prison get 3 squares a day, entertainment in the way of tv, exercise rooms, libraries, etc. and I'm helping to pay for it. Welfare behind bars. If California were to execute prisoners like Texas does, maybe there would be a whole lot less drama when they do get around to carrying out an execution. We have more liberals, actors, and other certifiable goofballs than any other state in the country, every execution gets publicity much like this one but you folks in other parts of the world are hearing more of this one because this guy wrote a few kids books and got the attention of all the right people. 30desoto has already said this but there is no remorse, no admission of guilt, he is said to have described the death noises one of his victims made and laughed about it for 5 minutes. There are a lot of evil people on death row in this state, if they're not going to execute them in a timely manner I wish there were ways they could bring back chain gangs and just work them to where they wish they were dead, self supporting their lifestyles they chose for themselves. You want to eat today, boy? You're going to husk corn for 16 hours. For the next 20 years, then we'll promote you to ditch digging. I hate our prison system in Ca., I know of a few guys that actually like lockup, in there they get 3 squares, lots of sleep, respect from their peers and don't have to work a lick. Argggghhhh. It would be interesting to see how Mike Farrell, Jesse Jackson, some of these big shot liberals would feel if they were the relatives of the victims. Jeez, I got to calm down now...lol. Good night gentlemen, Dan

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Old 12-13-2005, 06:08 AM
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Well ...Now that he has been executed, the will become a martyr for the gangs.

Maybe he did change his way of thinking and did try to help kids get away from the gangs, but we must remember one thing. He was a big part of creating the problem of gangs in the first place, and that can't be forgotten.
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