TQ vs HP in its own thread! - Page 3 - Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board
Hotrodders.com -- Hot Rod Forum



Register FAQ Search Today's Posts Unanswered Posts Auto Escrow Insurance Auto Loans
Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board > Tech Help> Engine
User Name
Password
lost password?   |   register now

Closed Thread
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #31 (permalink)  
Old 05-12-2010, 01:06 AM
DoubleVision's Avatar
Not Considered a Senior Member
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Heart Of Dixie
Age: 40
Posts: 10,655
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 15
Thanked 59 Times in 56 Posts
If memory serves he raced in the late 60`s, early 70`s. It seems not many had caught on to the idea during those years in that class of racing. He told me if it didn`t break, he never lost, but it did break alot.
He said he would tach it to around 9000 RPM, side step the clutch and hold on. His words were "if it didn`t break, you went fast"
He would only use GM 3 speed manual transmissions. The idea behind that was it was less gears to shift plus since the engine tached so fast you would be shifting into 3rd gear rather quickly, so when you add in that high RPM and 3rd gears 1:1 ratio the top end blast must have been a heck of a ride.
He told me a good bit about it as it did interest me. He said he had to play with the rear gear ratio a bit to get it how he wanted it. 5.13 gears seemed to work best he remembered.
He said the idea was he wanted the best of both worlds. He knew how important hole shot was and knew top end was important as well so he wanted to build something that did both. In the early 90`s when I seen the other high revvers they never won a race and why was obvious, they were using 5 speed transmissions and when your revving that high and fast there`s no way to shift it fast enough due to the close ratios of the 5 speeds they were using.

    Advertisement
Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #32 (permalink)  
Old 05-12-2010, 06:34 AM
How fast is fast enough?
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: St. Louis, MO
Age: 29
Posts: 8,948
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 17
Thanked 315 Times in 295 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by automotive breath
HP = Torque x RPM 5252

Where the argument? With out torque you have no HP.

As I noted you need some torque to have any horsepower, but with enough RPM the torque required to make a given amount of horsepower goes down- hence F1 engines.

So far not one person has given any empirical or theoretical evidence to suggest torque matters more than horsepower.

Not one.

There's been a lot of well, I know, he knew, I saw one time, I'm old therefor I'm right, etc. said, but not one strand of empirical or theoretical proof.

I'm just asking for one peace of evidence. The closest anyone has come is saying that torque is a FACTOR or horsepower, which it is, but it is not the sole factor. The discussion on translating the peak VE of a given engine to a point higher in the RPM range and losing torque but still going faster is one that the quarter mile is won on. And no one has provided any evidence to the contrary.

So continue on with the yelling and name calling, I'm just waiting for 1 solid answer.
Quick reply to this message
  #33 (permalink)  
Old 05-12-2010, 06:41 AM
Member
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Virginia
Posts: 875
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Ya'll must be heads up racin......LOL
Quick reply to this message
  #34 (permalink)  
Old 05-12-2010, 09:50 AM
engineczar's Avatar
Hotrodders.com Moderator
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: In Flowbench nirvana
Age: 52
Posts: 1,636
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 5
Thanked 45 Times in 41 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by ap72
The discussion on translating the peak VE of a given engine to a point higher in the RPM range and losing torque but still going faster is one that the quarter mile is won on.

according to who?
__________________
BSE Racing Engines
Quick reply to this message
  #35 (permalink)  
Old 05-12-2010, 09:55 AM
How fast is fast enough?
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: St. Louis, MO
Age: 29
Posts: 8,948
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 17
Thanked 315 Times in 295 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by engineczar
according to who?
Race car drivers, engine builders, camshaft designers, physicists, engineers, and I'm sure a lot of other people.
Quick reply to this message
  #36 (permalink)  
Old 05-12-2010, 10:14 AM
engineczar's Avatar
Hotrodders.com Moderator
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: In Flowbench nirvana
Age: 52
Posts: 1,636
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 5
Thanked 45 Times in 41 Posts
But what if you're building engines in a class that's restricted? No porting, stock valve trains, rear end gear rules, carburetor rules, compression rules, and you can't just turn more rpms?

There's all sorts of class racing going on out there.
__________________
BSE Racing Engines
Quick reply to this message
  #37 (permalink)  
Old 05-12-2010, 10:29 AM
V8 Super Beetle's Avatar
VW makes it, Chevy shakes it..
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Houston, TX
Age: 33
Posts: 1,245
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 5
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Quick reply to this message
  #38 (permalink)  
Old 05-12-2010, 11:19 AM
How fast is fast enough?
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: St. Louis, MO
Age: 29
Posts: 8,948
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 17
Thanked 315 Times in 295 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by engineczar
But what if you're building engines in a class that's restricted? No porting, stock valve trains, rear end gear rules, carburetor rules, compression rules, and you can't just turn more rpms?

There's all sorts of class racing going on out there.
Which is why horsepower is what matters, in these situations you still have to raise the average horsepower for your run. If you have a 350 with 430 ftlbs at 2500 RPM and falling there after, and one with 400 ftlbs at 6,000 RPM, the second will be much more suited to racing. Yet your peak torque fell... Your average hp increased though (assuming your shifts center you around 6,000 RPM).

Your torque dropped but your horsepower rose, and you went faster...

Just because you can't turn past 6500 doesn't mean you want a torque peak at 3500 (even if it is larger). The closer your peak torque is to your peak power the better off you are (one reason for tight LSA's and larger lobe splits on race engines).

Average horsepower across the track will determine who is quicker and faster- assuming equally matched chasis/drivetrains.
Quick reply to this message
  #39 (permalink)  
Old 05-12-2010, 03:37 PM
BigLeoRocks's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: arizona
Age: 38
Posts: 66
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
You may be "college educated" but you sure are stupid. These guys have forgotten more hotrod knowledge than you will ever posess.
Quick reply to this message
  #40 (permalink)  
Old 05-12-2010, 04:06 PM
Hippie's Avatar
Analog man in a digital world.
 

Last journal entry: HEI comparison.
Last photo:
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 2,255
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 3
Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigLeoRocks
You may be "college educated" but you sure are stupid. These guys have forgotten more hotrod knowledge than you will ever posess.
I don't always agree with him and at this point I'm not sure what 'ap' is trying to prove with this thread but I don't think that was called for.
Quick reply to this message
  #41 (permalink)  
Old 05-12-2010, 04:07 PM
BigLeoRocks's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: arizona
Age: 38
Posts: 66
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
And nobody cares about yer G damn degrees. People come on here to talk cars and get help with stuff. Not debate about crap for the sole purpose to make yourself feel better, or more intelligent than the next guy. Maybe daddy did not pay enough attention to you...maybe thats why you have to cut and paste and spew all your "theorhetical evidence" to make yourself feel important. THEORY is not fact fool. Just like yesterday I was giving a kid some advice for a 383 stroker and you pop in talkin some crap about "that wont do anything for airflow" I was advising him to get a DP holley style carb vs. Vac secondary. Just another case where you think you know everything and were trying to put somebody down...still have no idea where that came from. With all yer genius knowledge where is your hot rod? It should be faster than a speeding bullet with all of your theory and expierience. Go piss up a rope KID.
Quick reply to this message
  #42 (permalink)  
Old 05-12-2010, 04:13 PM
BigLeoRocks's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: arizona
Age: 38
Posts: 66
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Okay..I got a little heated... I should know better than to call names. It is a kinder, gentler generation where nobody is held accountable. I apologize. Maybe it was uncalled for...I'm over here in Afghanistan in a warzone..surrounded by self-proclaimed geniuses and people who think they are ultra-important. Sorry if I offended anybody.
Quick reply to this message
  #43 (permalink)  
Old 05-12-2010, 04:16 PM
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: illinois
Posts: 189
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Be safe BIGLEO and thank you for your service.
Quick reply to this message
  #44 (permalink)  
Old 05-12-2010, 04:19 PM
BigLeoRocks's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: arizona
Age: 38
Posts: 66
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanks. 42 days left.
Quick reply to this message
  #45 (permalink)  
Old 05-12-2010, 05:22 PM
Joe G's Avatar
Registered user
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: St. Paul, MN
Posts: 592
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 80
Thanked 36 Times in 35 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by ap72
As I noted you need some torque to have any horsepower, but with enough RPM the torque required to make a given amount of horsepower goes down- hence F1 engines.
From a strictly mathematical standpoint, the argument that HP is somehow "more important" than Torque is nonsense. Let me illustrate:

You need Torque and RPM to make HP. Thus, torque and RPM are both 'Factors' in determining HP.

As stated several times before,
(Torque X RPM) / 5252 = HP

Just for the sake of (friendly) argument, let's look at a similar equation,
(Length X Width) / 43560 = Acres

You are telling us that HP is 'more important' than Torque because you can make more HP with less Torque given a greater RPM.

By saying that, you would also agree that the Acreage of a lot is 'more important' than it's Length because you can make more Acreage with less Length given a greater Width.

It's nonsense.

The confusion here begins when you put HP and Torque in the context of racing and what's quicker and/or faster, because hundreds of other 'Factors' come into play, such as gearing, traction, weight, etc. etc.. Then it's not as simple as torque, RPM, and HP anymore.

Peace...
Quick reply to this message
Closed Thread

Recent Engine posts with photos

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name (usually not your first and last name), your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
New toy for mikey powerrodsmike Garage - Tools 47 12-09-2008 01:28 PM
HP and TQ Guesses of my 357 build ORANGEGASM Engine 2 08-13-2008 07:08 PM
Would you rather low end TQ or HP ChevyThunder Hotrodders' Lounge 23 12-26-2005 10:29 AM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:37 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
Copyright Hotrodders.com 1999 - 2012. All Rights Reserved.