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  #121 (permalink)  
Old 05-16-2010, 07:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 302 Z28
Blah blah blah blah

Vince
Thank you for the clarification.

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  #122 (permalink)  
Old 05-16-2010, 10:50 AM
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I'm not college educated or even a smart individual but I do have common sense. To me this thread is useless to most people, especially me. I don't know what the intentions were of AP but to people like me (with common sense) unless you have both HP & TQ, you are sitting still. You can't get one without the other. Even in a jet engine where there are no tires contacting the road to have to turn, you still have to have both HP & TQ to get thrust to move you. I think this whole thread was a way to start an argument between us Hotrodders. I'm sure some are sitting back and laughing at some of the replies and just thinking of a way to start another. I have come to all of you for advice and have gotten alot of very good advice during my build. There is one thing I did get out of reading this thread though, I now know who to take advice from and who not.
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  #123 (permalink)  
Old 05-16-2010, 11:11 AM
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Oh no, does this mean we have to relate shaft HP to thrust?

I'm going outside to work on my boat...

BTW new HP on the 16' boat, will I have enough torque?
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  #124 (permalink)  
Old 05-16-2010, 11:15 AM
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Another less nefarious reason behind the thread, is that it might have been an (ill conceived?) attempt to bring some light to a subject that is admittedly not well understood by most rodders. Maybe even to get some thoughts on the subject, thoughts that might not have been born of a wikipedia/google search.

I'm a firm believer that knowledge is to be found 'where you find it'- sometimes in some of the strangest places- like in threads that have otherwise little appeal. That's one reason that I try to read as many threads as I'm able- despite the seemingly "boring" or "off the wall" subject matter- you just NEVER know!
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  #125 (permalink)  
Old 05-16-2010, 11:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4 Jaw Chuck
Oh no, does this mean we have to relate shaft HP to thrust?

I'm going outside to work on my boat...

BTW new HP on the 16' boat, will I have enough torque?
Hmmmmm, good question
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  #126 (permalink)  
Old 05-16-2010, 11:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cobalt327
Another less nefarious reason behind the thread, is that it might have been an (ill conceived?) attempt to bring some light to a subject that is admittedly not well understood by most rodders. Maybe even to get some thoughts on the subject, thoughts that might not have been born of a wikipedia/google search.

I'm a firm believer that knowledge is to be found 'where you find it'- sometimes in some of the strangest places- like in threads that have otherwise little appeal. That's one reason that I try to read as many threads as I'm able- despite the seemingly "boring" or "off the wall" subject matter- you just NEVER know!
I agree totally, but, it seems that the more I read on these kinds of threads, the more confused I become. I find myself better off by just reading the replies from a few people that have helped me in the past that never steered me wrong. I have to believe that HP & TQ are fully understood by some. There are cars going 300+mph down a 1/4 mile strip. I'm sure they have it fiqured out so why try re-inventing the wheel?
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  #127 (permalink)  
Old 05-16-2010, 11:51 AM
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Here is the combo I came up with. I'm not a self proclaimed genius or anything like that, but I think for how much money I was willing to spend and for my application, I did pretty well.

383
3.750" Crank
5.7" Big beam rods
10:1 Comp. hypereutectic flat top pistons
Dart 200cc Int. runners 2.02/1.60 Iron heads (Platinum Iron Eagle)
CAM, .533" Int. and .555" ex. valve lift. Advertised duration is 288 Int. and 294 ex. Duration at .050" is 236 Int. and 242 ex. Ground on a 110 Lobe center. (Comp Cams 08-433-8 Juice Roller)
1.6 rocker arms
EdelBrock RPM Air Gap
750 street HP doublepumper

Here are the numbers

RPM HP TQ
2000 136 358
2500 173 363
3000 220 386
3500 287 431
4000 356 467
4500 417 487
5000 469 493
5500 502 479
6000 512 448
6500 508 410
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  #128 (permalink)  
Old 05-16-2010, 11:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S10 Racer
Hmmmmm, good question
This new motor is almost three times the CSCG label on the boat so the real question is...

Will it float?
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  #129 (permalink)  
Old 05-16-2010, 02:08 PM
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I dunno chucky, gravity`s been acting pretty screwy lately. You might wanna take some extra corks and a bailing bucket.
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  #130 (permalink)  
Old 05-16-2010, 05:39 PM
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I like this thread LOL!!

This was a good thread LOL!! I think I learned a little from this. Don't mess with guys who know their ***** LMAO!!

Very interesting arguments Very.

JD
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  #131 (permalink)  
Old 05-16-2010, 07:11 PM
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4jaw,,,
glad ya got it!!!

Mr Watt "did" developed his HP formula to help explain his new fang dangled long "linear" stroke double acting/reciprocating steam "thrust" driven piston cylinder engine to potential customers...
(cylinder body mounted to allow pivot on one end and cylinder shaft connected direct to the wheel)

a car motor's cylinders are just a whole bunch of short stroke "thrusts" which we measure as rotational TQ...

I did compose that post so maybe AP will atleast think about it...
(he says he has a CE degree and chemists are atleast familiar with psi)
he refuses to read any in depth link or simple link (like this one below) that I do post to back up and further explain my "for the idea" brief posted info...

http://craig.backfire.ca/pages/autos/horsepower

(that article link does also answer clearly many items raised in this thread)

other points raised in the thread:

why do online ET/MPH calculators use HP and weight to give results???
answer: they are nothing more than a "look up" table X-Y spread sheet based on many many actual drag strip runs median/average results...
"if X=600HP and Y=3000lbs strip tickets results position on the chart says you should be in the 10's at around 125mph...
there is a math formula to estimate ET/mph from HP/wt but it is based on a TQ constant value to determine the HP...
(which is how we did it before the net)

why don't we race diesels?
news flash:
many winning off shore race boats are diesel and for the last 5 plus years diesel has totally ruled production prototype road racing world wide (the Audi R8 and Peugeot)...
Audi does have a "race" small cubes turbo diesel AWD on the streets...

4jaw, they do make transom mounted added floation chambers to counter that major added motor weight on your boat...
I'd be more worried about trailering,,,that transom wasn't engineered for that much weight and hit a major pot hole...

Last edited by red65mustang; 05-16-2010 at 07:24 PM.
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  #132 (permalink)  
Old 05-16-2010, 07:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ap72
And I learned all the physics needed for this discussion in 5th grade, the concept isn't advanced at all so I would think everyone should have been taught this some point along the way to their highschool diploma, which I presume most of this forum's members have.

Sometimes having a book doesn't mean you understand what is in it though. I know I didn't really understand diff eg until I almost graduated.

I hope you meant Diff Eq, referring to differential equations. No such thing as diff eg.
Terry
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  #133 (permalink)  
Old 05-16-2010, 08:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tnovot
I hope you meant Diff Eq, referring to differential equations. No such thing as diff eg.
Terry
And I'm not sure about the physics in 5th grade either but things have changed since my school days. Most students today can't do simple math problems without a calculator. If I got caught with a calculator in school, it was principals office I went and you were accused of cheating.
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  #134 (permalink)  
Old 05-16-2010, 08:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tnovot
I hope you meant Diff Eq, referring to differential equations. No such thing as diff eg.
Terry
I have to take diff eq next semester. Not excited for that.

But this thread has been very useful and lots of knowledge has been presented. Like many people have said that tq is supposed to always win against hp. But why? Well when you consider the force at the wheels and the gear ratios that multiply the torque its a different story. I think ap brought up a good theory and maybe a couple people took it a wrong way from the way he went about it. I think there is a lot more involved here than what has been discussed. Ive seen some rotary engines go stupid fast and they make sh** for torque. Anyways I am in no way any where as experienced as most of these guys but the tq to the rear wheels really makes sense.....on paper.

I have honda friends and they always talk about i don't need torque my honda this revs to 9000rpm. And i give them this example. Swap a v8 into a 4cyl car and put a 4cyl motor into a v8. The 4cyl wont make the torque to move the car at a decent acceleration. Where as the v8 will twist the car in half. This is where torque matters is getting the vehicle moving. Anyways like i said i am in no way a knowledgeable person on the subject this is just how it plays out in my head and my .02 for what its worth.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VteSX6KGzh4
This always brightens my day.
haha no pistons
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  #135 (permalink)  
Old 05-16-2010, 08:39 PM
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AP72 and Pontiacphil are probably same person

Spoke to Pontiacphil and he sounds just like AP72. Try's to contradict everything you say. Try's to make up non facts. Just wanted to let everyone know.
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