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Old 12-18-2004, 04:02 AM
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tranny problem

Towing boat home and clutch disk gives (springs pop out). No one home to tow boat so I forced the tranny down the road.
I replace clutch and start the truck. In neutral the car is fine no noise or anything. I can not select any gear. When I try to select a gear with the truck running it will not budge. I turn the truck off, place the tranny in first and start the truck, the truck jumps like the clutch isn't engaged. Is there anything inside that could cause this? The company I bought the tranny from said to check the shifter for proper adjustment, and if not there it's in the clutch.
There has to be something else that it could be. I've been under the truck more than I can count making sure everything is right with the shifter and clutch.
Any ideas?

4 speed Saginaw tranny.

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Old 12-18-2004, 08:07 AM
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Sounds like the clutch was improperly installed or not correctly adjusted. Did you install the clutch disc with the springs to the rear? Is the linkage adjusted/bled correctly ? The trans won't shift into gear while running brcause the input shaft is still turning.
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Old 12-18-2004, 03:37 PM
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I made sure that the disk was on the right side. There was writing on the disk stating which side faced the flywheel. I placed that side facing the flywheel.
I had to buy another clutch fork. The old fork had one of the tabs broken off. The new fork doesn't slide the bearing as well as the other. I purchased the fork from a chevy dealer. The numbers from the old fork matched the new fork.
The linkage is adjusted correctly.
At this point I don't know what to do.
I thought that about the input shaft, just thought it may be something inside the tranny.
Maybe the writing was on the wrong side of the disk, which way should the springs face?
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Old 12-18-2004, 07:54 PM
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What you describe with the vehicle jumping when trying to start in gear is obvious that the input shaft is turning. That could be caused by:

1 The wrong clutch parts, causing it to not release properly. Could be wrong disc, causing the hub to hit flywheel, or too thick to be released. Possibly wrong length release bearing.

2 The disc not installed properly, with the flatter side towards the flywheel.

3 The clutch linkage not adjusted and operating properly. Usually should have about 1/4" free play at fork before feeling pressure on pressure plate.

4 Bad pilot bearing/bushing, not allowing shaft to spin in it when clutch released.

5 Flywheel improperly machined for those clutch parts.

Good luck
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Old 12-18-2004, 09:54 PM
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I wanted to thank you guys for trying to help me.
I guess I have some homework to do.
I've been trying to get this thing running for about a year now, I had a second vehicle, but it too is having problems. I though it was something to do with the tranny.
I've checked all the adjustments and they are right on. Maybe the wrong clutch. It's a Saginaw 4 speed. I use the 11" raised diaphragm style pressure plate. That's what it had on it before all went wrong. I'll post a link to a pic of what I'm using.
The pilot bearing has been hard to find. I'm using the original pilot, it looks bad from the way it looks (old), but it has just a little play when placed on the tranny shaft.

11" raised diaphragm clutch set
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Old 12-19-2004, 12:46 AM
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Does the clutch disc slide freely, on the input shaft splines. Maybe causing it to bind, and not release.
Did you change anything else, besides the clutch and pilot?
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Old 12-20-2004, 12:54 AM
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I think I found out what was causing the problem.

I burned up a disk before, I didn't have enough $ for the whole kit so I bought just the disk.
I went back to the parts store I bought the disk from.
Figured they would have it in the computer since it was a warranty item. I had them cross reference the clutch kit that's not working. Well turns out that the disk in the kit is different than the disk I bought before.
They couldn't find a kit with the disk that I needed so I bought the disk along with the kit. Putting it in tomorrow and will write to tell if it worked or not.
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Old 12-20-2004, 06:36 PM
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NO LUCK!

I installed the clutch making sure that the disk was on the right side. After installation I tried to fire the truck up. I placed the truck in first gear with truck off. When I did this I noticed that the pedal traveled half way down before I felt any resistance. I looked under the truck and saw that the clutch adjustment rod was turned all the way out, making the rod the longest it could be.
I tried to start the truck anyway and now it's stuck in first. When I turned the key it jumps forward. It seems like the clutch isn't releasing. I tried to look for a longer rod. I tried a few auto part stores but most were special order. One place had one, but the rod was way too short. The motor is out of a 72 Chevy c-10. The tranny is a 4 speed Saginaw tranny. The adjustment rod that I asked for as for a 81 el Camino, that's what everything is in. Do I need to ask for the rod from a 72 truck or is it all the same?
Am I traveling down the right path?

HELP!!!!!!
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Old 12-20-2004, 09:09 PM
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If everything worked before the clutch went out, what makes you think you have a linkage problem now? Do your new replacement parts look like your old ones? Was your first replacement disc the same as your original, is the current one the same, or are neither of them right? You did resurface the flywheel right? Throwout bearing spins freely?
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Old 12-20-2004, 09:58 PM
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The throwout bearing could be part of your trouble. GM used a long, and a short throwout. That would account for the bad fork geometry.
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Old 12-20-2004, 10:03 PM
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Sounds like you might have the wrong throwout bearing in it .They make a long and a short bearing.having a short one in would change angle of the fork making your adjusting rod to short.

packrat you beat me to it
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Old 12-21-2004, 12:33 AM
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The disk is the same as the original, bearing spins freely.
The diaphragm on the pressure plate looks different.
The original's diaphragm sat lower. It was raised then flat, this plate is raised in more of an arch.
The bearing looks different than the original. I don't remember the original bearing having an angle where it sits in the fork. I've seen two different bearings in different kits that I looked at. One has a round end (the original bearing looked like this), that's the bearing I have now. The other has a square shaped end. These are the only two so I guess the square type bearing is longer? That makes sense, if the bearing is longer it would contact the plate before the shorter, giving me less free play in the clutch pedal. The pedal goes down about half way before making contact with the plate. I have the rod adjusted all the way out now. Would this longer bearing take up that much slack to allow me to be able to take up that much free play in the pedal?
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Old 12-21-2004, 07:35 PM
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absolutely. A 1/4" at the bearing could be 6" at the pedal considering the geometry
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Old 12-21-2004, 07:50 PM
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I agree with cantspel. Bet you need the long bearing.

I wouldn't try a longer pedal rod. That might pull the fork so far that it slips off the bearing, and goes through you new cover diaphragm.
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Old 12-21-2004, 07:50 PM
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Going to give it a shot on Thursday.
I finally spoke to someone that works at an auto parts store who sounds like they know what they are doing.
He explained how GM made two different bearings for that setup. He took the time to pull one of the bearings(they were out of the other, and he put in an order just in case I need it). This bearing looks different than the one I have now. He told me to bring the throwout in to see if there is any difference in length between the two. After looking at the bearing he had, I remember that the original bearing looked like this one. I hope it all works out and will post when I find if it worked or not.

Thanks for the explination on the bearing vs. fork geometry!
I try to document all the problems/cures of this truck, just in case I ever sell it or run across the same problem at a later time. If it works out, thanks in advance for the addition!
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