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Old 06-11-2007, 12:13 PM
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Tranny Slipping

Hello All,

I'm new so please bear with me...

Firstly i must be honest and say MY hotrodding days are OVER by several years
but whilst searching the internet i came across your forum which was, by far, the
most intelligent and informative information i have found thus far and i have browsed
about a BAZILLION (so called) Tech forums. So i thought what the heck!
I'll throw my problem at you and see what happens.

VEHICLE:
2002 Chevy Silverado Z71 (4X4)
6.0 Vortech engine
4L60E automatic transmission
40,000 (Mileage)

CAUSE OF PROBLEM:
Shade tree mechanic error during dreaded 'SUN SHELL' replacement.

SYMPTOMS:
Slipping in 'D' in all ranges (2HI, 4HI, 4LO) (Reverse is fine in all ranges and if
i shift into 1st, 2nd, 3rd manually NO SLIP)
Fluid level is correct.

SUMMARY:
Let's start with the fact that i am no mechanic but am also not an idiot. ie: i can
look at the picture and sorta get the jist of what to do...
There was no slipping or any other probs with this tranny (except the normal, well,
Chevy normal, clunks and such) until this sun shell project. I have been told many
things to check but it seems that they 'ALL' lean towards the 'OIL PUMP ASSEMBLY'
and that it may have gotten plugged up (dirty...whatever). By the way... when i pulled
the pan to check things out there was NO metal shavings or anything out of the
ordinary in the pan or anywhere else. The sun shell looked like the teeth just flattened
over and that was that. Sun gear was perfect.

Any thoughts or suggestions (other than buy a new truck) would be appreciated!

Thanks!
Dave

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Old 06-11-2007, 07:25 PM
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Sounds like a forward clutch problem....

Pump is working fine IF reverse is good and the other gears hold well in manual 1 - 2 or 3.

in the shifter position "OD" the over-run frictions are NOT applied.... in manual 3-2-1 the over -run frictions are holding which must be helping the weak forward clutch hold power.

SO...... why is there a forward clutch problem?

Was the complete trans taken apart? IF the rear center support roller clutch is not holding it will create this problem too

Perhaps a cut sealing ring during the repair mentioned above?

A bad forward sprag assembly?

Drum assemblys not installed correctly and damaged during start up?

Damaged occured during the repair I would guess and the trans may have to be removed again to correct this.

At this point I would believe the forward clutch pack is burned and will need replacement too.
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Old 06-12-2007, 12:50 AM
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Should I Be....

Greetings Crosley!

PART ONE:

I am going to reply back in parts so as to attempt to avoid confusion since your
response has multiple possibilities.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crosley
Sounds like a forward clutch problem....
Pump is working fine IF reverse is good and the other gears hold well in manual 1 - 2 or 3.
in the shifter position "OD" the over-run frictions are NOT applied.... in manual 3-2-1 the over -run frictions are holding which must be helping the weak forward clutch hold power.
I popped off the pan plug and drained some fluid to take a look see and there seems
to be alot of dark matter in the fluid. I know that 'some' is supposed to be normal
(i've been told) but there seems to be an excess of the stuff. I have NOT been driving
the vehicle except for test runs down my road. Does this darkness in this NEW
fluid give us a better clue?

Dave
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Old 06-12-2007, 01:09 AM
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Should I Be....

PART TWO:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crosley
SO...... why is there a forward clutch problem?

Was the complete trans taken apart? IF the rear center support roller clutch is not holding it will create this problem too
Perhaps a cut sealing ring during the repair mentioned above?
If you mean totally and completely into each tiny piece....NO.... It was taken just
apart enough to replace the SUN SHELL and put back together BUT, and maybe
this is where the OOPS happened, my brother-in-law was looking at the parts as
they sat on my makeshift workbench and maybe messed with something that i
didn't see. I do know that when i pulled things apart i was ACUTELY careful not
to goof around with anything else... but now with what you have said about the
forward clutch i did have problems getting things to slide back in place and had to
mess with it quite awhile before stuff lined up and slipped back together. But, is
it actually possible for the pump to bolt in place properly and one of the plates be
offset or something. Just don't seem logical to me since they are notched...

Dave
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Old 06-12-2007, 01:21 AM
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Should I Be....

PART THREE:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crosley
Drum assemblys not installed correctly and damaged during start up?
Damaged occured during the repair I would guess and the trans may have to be removed again to correct this.
At this point I would believe the forward clutch pack is burned and will need replacement too.
Okay.... would my PART TWO message kind of relate to the Drum assembly deal
here and then the DARK MATTER coincide with the burned forward clutch pack?
OR... could the clutch pack have actually burned when the SUN SHELL broke and
due to the circumstances at the time i had NO CHOICE but to drive the vehicle
approx. 10 miles to get to civilization?

No matter which way it goes i already have the PULL IT BACK OUT tools rounded
up for TOMORROW (oops.... TODAY.... it's 12:19 a.m.) as i know that it will have
to come back out.

Dave

Last edited by djg5211; 06-12-2007 at 01:25 AM. Reason: spelling error
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Old 06-14-2007, 11:34 PM
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Found Problem

Yippppeeee!!! (Sorta)

I pulled the tranny back out and found that one of the clutch plates had not
lined up and had gotten bent. I have found nothing else wrong. Will be putting
things back together tomorrow....so, Crosley, what you said initially about the
CLUTCH was dead on!

Is there any trick to keeping the plates lined up to put things back together or
is it just the turn and wiggle technique ONLY? There must be a way to be
CERTAIN that everything is right and pushed in as far as it goes?

Thanks Crosley.... for the help. I'll let you know the final outcome after
it's back together.

Dave
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Old 06-15-2007, 07:16 AM
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a good pair of channel lock pliers work real well on turning the input drum to get it to "fall" into place. i hope that during assembly that u put the reverse drum down onto the input drum 1st before installing them into the case... if not, that may be where the problem all started. also,make sure that after the pump has been seated, that the input shaft turns freely after the pump is all the way down. a couple pump bolts opposite from each other snugged down will be enough to tell if all is well... gl
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Old 06-15-2007, 11:53 AM
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tranny slipping

Transmission builders, at least most of them.....I think, use what is called an H gauge, to check clearance while assembling transmissions.

Comes in handy also if your not sure the drum is all the way down.

If you assemble the reverse input drum onto the input drum [ has the input shaft ], as tnsmith 10 suggest you will be fine.

If you think the drum is down all of the way, then grab the shaft, pick it up just a little and with a little force set it back down, you should hear a thud, then you know your down .
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Old 06-15-2007, 06:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by briscoe
Transmission builders, at least most of them.....I think, use what is called an H gauge, to check clearance while assembling transmissions.


I do not know where my H gauge is located.

Since I often add torrington bearings to units where a torrington was not located before ....I physically check each unit with pump install for end clearance ..... I leave the O-ring off the pump for checking.
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Old 06-18-2007, 05:29 AM
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tranny slipping

It should be located between your G gauge and your I gauge.
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Old 06-18-2007, 06:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by briscoe
It should be located between your G gauge and your I gauge.
I have got to write this stuff down.....
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Old 06-30-2007, 12:13 PM
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New Symptoms

Quote:
Originally Posted by briscoe
Transmission builders, at least most of them.....I think, use what is called an H gauge, to check clearance while assembling transmissions.

Comes in handy also if your not sure the drum is all the way down.

If you assemble the reverse input drum onto the input drum [ has the input shaft ], as tnsmith 10 suggest you will be fine.

If you think the drum is down all of the way, then grab the shaft, pick it up just a little and with a little force set it back down, you should hear a thud, then you know your down .
Hi All,

It's taken awhile for me to get back on here. SO... got it back together and the thud
technique worked fine for me but i noticed that my lockup solenoid seemed somewhat
cheesey as i was putting things back together and i need a bit more advice here.
Cheesy meaning the tabs that hold the (snout?) on were allowing alot of play (ie:
you could hold the snout and wiggle it around. I didn't replace it with a new one but
figured that if i need to i at least don't have to pull the whole tranny to replace it.

But... new symptoms to get input on...
Now it will move forward and still has a slip in 'D' but, it's not a continual slip. It
slips and then grabs. From all the stuff i have read so far it seems to me that there
are a couple of things that appear to fit the symptoms almost to a tee. 1. A clogged,
dirty or loose filter and or bad filter 'O' ring/gasket OR the lockup solenoid OR low fluid
level. The fluid level is right on the mark so it's not that. New filter so it's not that.

Input?

Thanks for the help guys!
Dave

Last edited by djg5211; 06-30-2007 at 12:17 PM. Reason: typo
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