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Old 01-19-2014, 01:28 PM
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Trans Cooling issues

Hello All

Given a choice of a trans cooler built into the radiator or a external cooling coil what would you guys,,gals do ? Also why would you go that way .This is a 700r and a mildly built 350,with a motor driven fan.
.Not going to race it or anything ,well not a lot anyway.
I have the option because of this being a complete build.
Thanks

Jeff

PS
Off subject of this room ,but what about radiator over flow . The original radiator just had a ,I guess a pressure over flow that dumped the water out .Or should I go with a overflow tank setup.And benifits of one over the other. I ran the old set up with a 305 TPI and 700r and had no over heating problems .
Thanks again
Jeff

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Old 01-19-2014, 02:07 PM
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Why not use both coolers?....External cooling is good, but if you live where there is winter, the in rad cooler helps bring the trans up to temp quicker.

As for the overflow, the systems with the tank help recover the coolant. You generally run a lower pressure cap on these, so the coolant can go in and out as required.
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Old 01-19-2014, 02:10 PM
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If your going to drive in cold weather go with one in the rad. It will add heat to the oil, cold oil can be hard on a tranny. I am talking sub zero temps.

I would use a B&M oil pan with fins like a bike engine has for cooling myself. B&M makes some deadly oil pans for cooling! They even add an oil plug for draining oil. I would use this pan with an in rad oil cooller.

As for an external, I would skip it. Just an ugly eyesore and pest to find room for.
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Old 01-19-2014, 02:13 PM
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I run only an external cooler in my Model A, 355 SBC and Turbo 350 trans. It's a "fair weather" ride and never gets driven in the winter, and the radiator heating the tranny fluid to 190 F isn't a good thing the rest of the year.

As for radiator over flow on my Model A I am using a 2" round puke tank, you can see it mounting vertically, on the far side of the radiator, in the photo below.

On my Model T, 5.0 HO Ford and 4 speed Manual trans, I have no overflow whatsoever, same thing on my '65 C10. Kind of dealers choice, if ya want a bit more capacity, use an overflow. It's also nice if you have pets, don't have to worry about them getting into antifreeze.


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Old 01-20-2014, 05:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poncho62 View Post
Why not use both coolers?....External cooling is good, but if you live where there is winter, the in rad cooler helps bring the trans up to temp quicker.

As for the overflow, the systems with the tank help recover the coolant. You generally run a lower pressure cap on these, so the coolant can go in and out as required.

I guess if I had a radiator with cooler already I would use both also,but if planning and buying new which way would I go? I guess I never had to many problems yet with just a external cooler on most of all other hotrods,so do what you need I guess with room/air flow issues ect.Theres always the chance of internal coolers leaking and if not new then I would be a little worried about this,but not a huge deal just something to think about.
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Old 01-20-2014, 05:58 PM
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Personally I go with both. The in radiator coolers are ok for normal driving, but what is normal driving? From what I understand the best thing you can do for your auto trans is keep it cool. Pretty hard to keep the oil under 200* F when your coolant is pushing 220*
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Old 01-20-2014, 06:22 PM
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Personally I go with both. The in radiator coolers are ok for normal driving, but what is normal driving? From what I understand the best thing you can do for your auto trans is keep it cool. Pretty hard to keep the oil under 200* F when your coolant is pushing 220*
I always wondered the same thing,I mean keeping tranny cool good, but not to cool right.But I read and seen tranny "experts" say to always use internal is the best,there reasons where not so convincing,but you gota remmber everyones sistuation is a little different,so plan accordingly.But like you said how to keep cool when engine temp is over 200 right.I guess my hot rods keep at 180-190 or cooler on highway but all depends on outside temp ect..Ultimately I would probably use(If its a hotrod) a external and make changes as needed or if you have internal cooler you could always add electric fan which I guess mine have for A/C ect..
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Old 01-20-2014, 08:26 PM
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The tech at the shop the last time I had the trans in my daily driver repaired (I was on the road 25K miles a year) told me the best thing you can do to make your trans survive is to add an exterior cooler. I keep that in mind.
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Old 01-21-2014, 07:53 AM
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As mentioned use both, the in radiator system is not really a coller but a method of warming up the fluid. Cold fluid can be just as bad for an auto trans as too hot fluid.

Vince
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Old 01-21-2014, 09:16 AM
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Herīs a Trans Life Expectancy Chart from TCI.
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Old 01-21-2014, 10:47 AM
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My '31 has an external cooler, but according to the gauge, it usually ends up running about what the engine temp is once everything is heat soaked - at about 180-185. I have a cooler built into the bottom of the radiator tank and am not using it if for no other reason then to reduce the plumbing runs. I also have 1 quart larger finned aluminum pan on the tranny as well. My truck has a separate 10 quart transmission cooling system (it's a Ford 6.7 diesel) and that tranny also runs at about the same temp - 195 according to the digital gauge setup as the engine.

My idea for the '31 was to simplify things. The 24" double pass cooler is on the left, the oil pan with the gauge sender centered in the photo:



I also run a 14" puke tank for the radiator which is mounted on the opposite side then when this photo was taken(plus the @#$% convoluted top hose is GONE):



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Old 01-21-2014, 03:00 PM
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I only run external cooling..Never had one fail yet,,Behind 400 + hp..
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Old 01-23-2014, 01:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffmc View Post
Hello All

Given a choice of a trans cooler built into the radiator or a external cooling coil what would you guys,,gals do ? Also why would you go that way .This is a 700r and a mildly built 350,with a motor driven fan.
.Not going to race it or anything ,well not a lot anyway.
I have the option because of this being a complete build.
Thanks

Jeff

PS
Off subject of this room ,but what about radiator over flow . The original radiator just had a ,I guess a pressure over flow that dumped the water out .Or should I go with a overflow tank setup.And benifits of one over the other. I ran the old set up with a 305 TPI and 700r and had no over heating problems .
Thanks again
Jeff


You mention TH700 and mildly built 350, I see nothing extreme here, keep it simple and reliable, you will enjoy your car all the more.
Always use the in-rad cooler anyway, that factory set-up is a really good system that has work perfectly in millions of vehicles, including half-tons, and all these factory vehicles had motor-driven fans too. It is also simpler to instal and looks cleaner (less pipes/hoses). If you are going to tow a big trailer, or burn a lot of rubber, then you could add a small external cooler. I say ädd" because they are meant to work together, the instructions on aftermarket coolers will tell you to mount it after the rad cooler, the temp of both fluids regulate each other and you should never use only an outside cooler. The trans fluid should go through the in-rad cooler first and then through the external cooler.
On your other topic, you should run an overflow tank, in a pressurized system: if your engine spills coolant, it will not run on the ground, but be kept in the overflow tank: this means the coolant can be "re-used" by the engine later if needed, the engine would suck the coolant back in circulation. This helps in a potential over-heating situation, as the engine has more coolant available to use. If you want to race a bit, most drag strips require an overflow tank anyway, they do not want their track to get wet. And finally, it is messy to have coolant run to the ground... Again, a pressurized system has worked perfectly for millions of vehicles, it will work for you. Get your inspiration from any factory set-up. There is no good reason to go without the overflow!
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Old 01-24-2014, 10:31 AM
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I couldn't keep the temp below 200° with a 200r4 in my '38 coupe. The PO had a frame mounted external cooler with a TH350 and I used that cooler when I swapped to the 200r4. When it got too hot, I bought a MUCH bigger, fan forced cooler. That works OK around town but on the freeway it still runs hot with the cooler under the car. Not enough airflow at speed. I also want to pull a small camping trailer so I had to spring for a new radiator with internal cooling and I need to dream up a way to mount the external cooler behind the grille along with the A/C condenser...

And don't buy a cheap, $150 ebay aluminum rad with wide tube spacing and too few fins. Get a quality rad to start with or you could be buying 2 instead...

If you want a cheap radiator, I'll sell you the one I take out...
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