Transmission vibration - Page 2 - Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board
Hotrodders.com -- Hot Rod Forum



Register FAQ Search Today's Posts Unanswered Posts Auto Escrow Insurance Auto Loans
Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board > Tech Help> Transmission - Rearend
User Name
Password
lost password?   |   register now

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #16 (permalink)  
Old 10-07-2011, 09:43 AM
Bobs36ford's Avatar
Registered User
 

Last journal entry: Video of new upholstery
Last photo:
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: virginia
Age: 79
Posts: 101
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 57
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
u joint angle

attached is picture of u joint angle

    Advertisement
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #17 (permalink)  
Old 10-07-2011, 09:49 AM
Frisco's Avatar
Glad To Be Here
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Canton, North Carolina
Age: 73
Posts: 2,244
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 8 Times in 8 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by cobalt327
Maybe I'm missing something (wouldn't be the first time...), but I don't see tire diameter effecting the driveline angle.
Think passenger car with the pinion shaft up 3 degrees and 26" diameter rear tires.

Compare that to an off-road vehicle, rock crawler or monster truck with the pinion shaft at the same 3 degree angle BUT with very tall (large diameter) tires installed. This will change the height of the rear u-joint from the ground and depending on how high in relation to the frame the engine is mounted, will change the driveshaft angle.

The crankshaft centerline angle to the ground and the pinion shaft angle to the ground should be the same as each other (or close). The driveshaft angle (which will effect the u-joint angles) is determined by how high or low the crank centerline is in relation to the pinion shaft and the length of the driveshaft will also effect the driveshaft angle. The shorter the driveshaft the greater the driveshaft angle.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #18 (permalink)  
Old 10-07-2011, 09:51 AM
cobalt327's Avatar
WFO
 
Last wiki edit: Intake manifold
Last journal entry: 1980 Malibu Wagon
Last photo:
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Atlanta
Age: 60
Posts: 5,037
Wiki Edits: 1616

Thanks: 128
Thanked 597 Times in 546 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frisco
Think passenger car with the pinion shaft up 3 degrees and 26" diameter rear tires.

Compare that to an off-road vehicle, rock crawler or monster truck with the pinion shaft at the same 3 degree angle BUT with very tall (large diameter) tires installed. This will change the height of the rear u-joint from the ground and depending on how high in relation to the frame the engine is mounted, will change the driveshaft angle.

The crankshaft centerline angle to the ground and the pinion shaft angle to the ground should be the same as each other (or close). The driveshaft angle (which will effect the u-joint angles) is determined by how high or low the crank centerline is in relation to the pinion shaft and the length of the driveshaft will also effect the driveshaft angle. The shorter the driveshaft the greater the driveshaft angle.
Sorry, maybe it's me but I just don't see it. I often need to think in extremes to get my head around a concept. If I think about a vehicle standing on it's nose, for instance, I do not see a change in the drivetrain angle.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #19 (permalink)  
Old 10-07-2011, 10:18 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Iowa
Posts: 4
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by cobalt327
Sorry, maybe it's me but I just don't see it. I often need to think in extremes to get my head around a concept. If I think about a vehicle standing on it's nose, for instance, I do not see a change in the drivetrain angle.
I agree, tire size has no effect on driveline angles. Axle to frame height, or axle to crankshaft centerline height does however. You should shoot for having the crankshaft, and axle pinion parallel. The height will determine your u-jount angles which are typically in the 2-4 degree range.

I also don't think the OP's angles can be 20 degrees. I trigged it out with a 55 inch long driveshaft at 20 degrees, that would give a height difference from crankshaft centerline to axle of almost 19 inches. Unless he has a monster truck I don't see how the angle can be that severe. Or if either the engine or the axle is mounted at a very severe angle.

Edit: Not sure why, but I don't see the picture either
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #20 (permalink)  
Old 10-07-2011, 10:20 AM
Frisco's Avatar
Glad To Be Here
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Canton, North Carolina
Age: 73
Posts: 2,244
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 8 Times in 8 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by cobalt327
Sorry, maybe it's me but I just don't see it. I often need to think in extremes to get my head around a concept. If I think about a vehicle standing on it's nose, for instance, I do not see a change in the drivetrain angle.
I thought about drawing examples out but that would take too long.

So I did a quick search for pics to illustrate. Below is a pic of a rock crawler and a monster truck. Notice that in both pics the engines are installed at what appears to be the 'normal' 3 degree down at the rear angle. Next look at the driveshaft angles.

If the engines were installed lower in the frames of either vehicle at the same angles that they are now, the driveshaft angle would be much less than shown.

Also if the rear axles were installed higher up in relation to the frame, the driveshaft angles would be reduced.

As to the tire diameter statement I made, if the body was kept at the same relationship to the ground as shown, but the tire diameter was either reduced or increased, the suspension would have to be modified. That modification would cause the driveshaft angle to change.

The same is correct if the wheelbase is shortened or lengthened. If all else remains the same the driveshaft angle will change.

The pics I posted are of vehicles that are not driven great distances at high speeds. This enables the radical u-joint angles to function (sort of) but they will not last long because of the extreme angles.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	rockcrawler.jpg.jpg
Views:	32
Size:	93.0 KB
ID:	58831   Click image for larger version

Name:	monster truck.jpg.jpg
Views:	32
Size:	112.8 KB
ID:	58832  
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #21 (permalink)  
Old 10-07-2011, 10:26 AM
cobalt327's Avatar
WFO
 
Last wiki edit: Intake manifold
Last journal entry: 1980 Malibu Wagon
Last photo:
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Atlanta
Age: 60
Posts: 5,037
Wiki Edits: 1616

Thanks: 128
Thanked 597 Times in 546 Posts
Quote:
As to the tire diameter statement I made, if the body was kept at the same relationship to the ground as shown, but the tire diameter was either reduced or increased, the suspension would have to be modified. That modification would cause the driveshaft angle to change.
If the suspension was modified, that could change the DT angle- what I am saying is a change in tire diameter will not change the DT angle. Agreed?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #22 (permalink)  
Old 10-07-2011, 10:30 AM
Frisco's Avatar
Glad To Be Here
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Canton, North Carolina
Age: 73
Posts: 2,244
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 8 Times in 8 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by cobalt327
If the suspension was modified, that could change the DT angle- what I am saying is a change in tire diameter will not change the DT angle. Agreed?
YES. With all other things being unchanged, just changing the tire diameter will NOT change the driveline angle.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #23 (permalink)  
Old 10-07-2011, 10:40 AM
cobalt327's Avatar
WFO
 
Last wiki edit: Intake manifold
Last journal entry: 1980 Malibu Wagon
Last photo:
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Atlanta
Age: 60
Posts: 5,037
Wiki Edits: 1616

Thanks: 128
Thanked 597 Times in 546 Posts
Ok, I got it, thanks.

OT- whose wheels are those (brand), on the '32(?) in your avatar, and do you like them, good chrome, any probs. w/them? I'd like a set for my wagon.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobs36ford
attached is picture of u joint angle
Am I the only one who can't see it?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #24 (permalink)  
Old 10-07-2011, 10:45 AM
Frisco's Avatar
Glad To Be Here
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Canton, North Carolina
Age: 73
Posts: 2,244
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 8 Times in 8 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by cobalt327
Ok, I got it, thanks.

OT- whose wheels are those (brand), on the '32(?) in your avatar, and do you like them, good chrome, any probs. w/them? I'd like a set for my wagon.

Am I the only one who can't see it?
I can't see the photo either. It's not attached to the post.

The chrome wheels on the '28 Ford Pickup were purchased thru Coker in Chattanooga. I'm not sure who they got them from. Excellent chrome and no problems with them.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #25 (permalink)  
Old 10-07-2011, 10:56 AM
Bobs36ford's Avatar
Registered User
 

Last journal entry: Video of new upholstery
Last photo:
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: virginia
Age: 79
Posts: 101
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 57
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
u joint angle

See 2nd attachment
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	011.JPG
Views:	43
Size:	174.2 KB
ID:	58838  
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #26 (permalink)  
Old 10-07-2011, 12:22 PM
cobalt327's Avatar
WFO
 
Last wiki edit: Intake manifold
Last journal entry: 1980 Malibu Wagon
Last photo:
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Atlanta
Age: 60
Posts: 5,037
Wiki Edits: 1616

Thanks: 128
Thanked 597 Times in 546 Posts
That looks like a lot to me... But 20 degrees? In any event, I believe dropping the front of the engine will help if it's nose-up (what is the attitude of the engine in the frame?), possibly also lowering the engine if it can be done w/o major surgery.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #27 (permalink)  
Old 10-07-2011, 01:07 PM
prostreet6t9's Avatar
Differential/Driveline
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: oregon
Age: 51
Posts: 1,758
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 9
Thanked 43 Times in 40 Posts
I would raise the rear up a little. Take a 1/2" of washers and put them in between the trans mount and the trans with the mount bolts going thru the washers. Run the car on jack stands and see if it helps any. You can experiment with the thickness to see if you can make the shake better or worse.

If you find a spot that makes it better you can make a aluminum spacer with the thickness that worked best.

Its hard to tell by the pic... Depending on how long that slip yoke is,it almost looks like the D/L may be a little short.

If you get a chance you might post a pic of the rear angle also.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #28 (permalink)  
Old 10-07-2011, 01:38 PM
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: hesperia ca
Age: 57
Posts: 64
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 11
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
engine and driveshaft angle

2-5 degrees on drive shaft with engine intake level bubble left to right front to back for float level
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #29 (permalink)  
Old 10-07-2011, 04:01 PM
Bobs36ford's Avatar
Registered User
 

Last journal entry: Video of new upholstery
Last photo:
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: virginia
Age: 79
Posts: 101
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 57
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
u joint angle

Rear u joint angle
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	003.JPG
Views:	36
Size:	355.7 KB
ID:	58845  
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #30 (permalink)  
Old 10-07-2011, 04:09 PM
Bobs36ford's Avatar
Registered User
 

Last journal entry: Video of new upholstery
Last photo:
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: virginia
Age: 79
Posts: 101
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 57
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by prostreet6t9
I would raise the rear up a little. Take a 1/2" of washers and put them in between the trans mount and the trans with the mount bolts going thru the washers. Run the car on jack stands and see if it helps any. You can experiment with the thickness to see if you can make the shake better or worse.

If you find a spot that makes it better you can make a aluminum spacer with the thickness that worked best.

Its hard to tell by the pic... Depending on how long that slip yoke is,it almost looks like the D/L may be a little short.

If you get a chance you might post a pic of the rear angle also.
Thanks for the info. I just posted pic of rear u joint
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

Recent Transmission - Rearend posts with photos

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name (usually not your first and last name), your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Vibration 1Sick 32 Transmission - Rearend 33 09-27-2008 11:29 AM
Transmission vibration ArmyofOne Transmission - Rearend 3 11-28-2007 05:30 AM
350 vibration caminoguy55 Engine 15 01-28-2004 10:10 AM
vibration dankarol Engine 4 12-25-2003 12:15 AM
Vibration markiemyster Engine 4 07-11-2003 10:05 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:07 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
Copyright Hotrodders.com 1999 - 2012. All Rights Reserved.