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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 06-11-2011, 08:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElegantInventor
If better or more accurate specificiations for the trinary switch exist, or if anyone has hands-on measurements, I am glad to edit the drawings to reflect the knowledge.
I didn't put a kickback diode across the relay originally, but if running a digital or transistor controlled thermostat it is a must. Will be editing the drawing anyway, so if anyone has added information I can pop it on there.
Jon P. Sarasota, Florida
Thanks Jon!
I ordered a VA trinary switch late last night. I figured the best way to answer the question was to just get one and test it. I'll give it a test as soon as I get it. Of course, the pressures I will give you will only be as accurate as my 35 year old set of gauges.

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Old 06-11-2011, 08:28 AM
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Well, you would have to check. I allways assumed that they will operate except when at roadspeed, say 35-40 and up.
I have never thought to check, but it is likely.
I would think you could watch the live data stream on a scanner while driving to see if fan reuest changes to no after a certain speed is reached, or for the analog check, just hook a test light the curcuit and see if it powers down, you would have to check it at the relay coil side to determine if a request was present, and also the pressure switch to determine the feedback it provided was the reason it has a fan request, then you would be able to summise after a few accelerations past the roadspeed threshold to see if the ecm is switching request from that value.
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Old 06-11-2011, 09:15 AM
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Roger,

I like the Speed Activated Switch you found. Simple design, easy to wire in as well. Drew it into the trinary switch circuit already going.

Jon P.
Sarasota, Florida
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Old 06-11-2011, 09:34 AM
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Thanks latech, but I don't think I'll go to the trouble. I think I'll just assume it's about 40mph. Seems like we are on the same thoughts as far as that goes.

Btw, pics always make things a little more interesting. Here's my '55 Bel Air project that I'm asking all these questions about:


Oops, I've got to repaint that air intake tube:


Big radiator and condenser:


2 - 14" fans:


Dakota Digital controller:


Sealed relay box:

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Old 06-11-2011, 09:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElegantInventor
Roger,
I like the Speed Activated Switch you found. Simple design, easy to wire in as well. Drew it into the trinary switch circuit already going.
Jon P. Sarasota, Florida
Cool! Nice job.
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 06-11-2011, 09:47 AM
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Very nice looking engine compartment roger.That AC condenser should be sufficient (WOW) to keep it nice inside your ride.
Keep in mind that airflow across the condenser is critical at stop lights as the airflow is dependant on the fans, they look quite sufficient.
When I do a retrofit I usually seal up the area around the edges of the condenser to radiator so as to cause a positive flow and to keep air from being pulled in around the edges. It helps keep the airflow up at the condenser at the stoplight and keeps a better duct temp as a result.
I dont see a problem with your setup, just something to remember thats all.
You may want to think about how to make a presentable seal in that area , even if you opt not to use it.
BTW, that color is perfect on a 55 chevy , sweet.
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Old 06-11-2011, 10:10 AM
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Thanks for the complements latech! That's original '55 Regal Turquoise. I'm going with the original 2 tone scheme with India Ivory on top.

And Jon, about that speed activated switch. I did a lot of google searching on those and it took me a couple of days before I found that one. It really is perfect for what I want. I ordered 2. One for my '55 project and another for my LT1 powered El Camino. I hope they work as advertised. I did think they were a little expensive. But, there's not much competition for them.

I found another one that looked good made in the UK. You might be interested in taking a look at it. They don't sell to the public and referred me to an agent in the US to contact. But the agent wasn't a retailer either so I didn't follow up on it.
Sailes Speed Switch Relay
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 06-11-2011, 12:54 PM
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Jon,
Here's another thing that might interest you. I took the GM schematic for a 2 speed fan system using dual fans and made my own diagram out of it just to make it easier for myself during the wiring process.
Of course, my hand drawn diagram is kind of crude next to the ones you do.

GM:


My diagram:


The Dakota Digital controller has connectors for the fan low and fan high wires but that could just as easily be hooked up to two temperature switches mounted in the engine without the use of a controller at all. If I were going to do that, I'd probably use something similar to an on-at-185 switch for low and an on-at-195 switch for high.

I had someone ask me once about if using a 2 switch setup, how do you incorporate the use of the trinary switch output.

My solution was to add an additional "DUAL MAKE" relay.

And here is how I told him to wire it in:


latech,
One thing I didn't mention to this guy was about using a diode to protect the trinary switch because I didn't know about that at the time. If using 2 temperature switches in the engine block, should they need a diode to protect them? I've been using an engine block switch for years in my El Camino and never had a problem so I'm thinking not.

Btw, Jon if you want to take my diagram clean it up and/or incorporate any new things and call it your own, feel free. And, guys, if I've made any mistakes or there is an easier way, by all means, point it out.
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 06-15-2011, 05:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by latech
also this one is good
http://www.jameco.com/
Oh and you are spot on about the fans hunting and excessivley cycling with a trinary that does not have a differential. That is what leads me to think the tech guy didnt know, or there switches arent perfected yet.
You need the differential to run them long enough to shed the excess heat, otherwise they run for a few seconds, shed some heat, turn off, then the heat is back almost instantly and they are on again and the same thing over and over.
I have suggested hooking the fans to a relay that is powered with the AC on and the relay coil runs from the brake light switch. Think about it, if you are at a stop light , you are on the brake, Right? Naturally you would need to diode that circuit as well for obvious reasons, and I could go on for days, but it was a suggestion for a good place to start, that s all.
I got my VA Trinary switch delivered today.
I was going to do a test on the fan-on/off pressure and report back here.

I was going to run this test on my El Camino which is R12. The switch says "R134a" on the switch itself. It is molded into it, so it's not something VA put on there. Could that possibly affect the results of the test? I mean, why would it say R134a? Could the pressure values be different with the 2 different refrigerants?

Btw, the switch is made in Taiwan and has the pressures (in bars I presume) listed on a sticker (as well as some other part number) that was covered up by VA's own sticker.
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Old 06-15-2011, 05:26 PM
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I've never seen a high pressure switch used on an R12 system, since the max pressures were generally lower. Any system using a high pressure switch is probably designed for R134a, so that may be why they mark it on the switch that way.

Bruce
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 06-15-2011, 05:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 75gmck25
I've never seen a high pressure switch used on an R12 system, since the max pressures were generally lower. Any system using a high pressure switch is probably designed for R134a, so that may be why they mark it on the switch that way.Bruce
Could be. But I'm wondering about the fact that the 2 different gases have different properties, if it will affect my test results. It's been too long since I've taken physics.
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 06-15-2011, 05:41 PM
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pressure is pressure, regardless. Hi pressure switches are used on lots of cars. Most (lots) of GM used one in the back of the compressor as a safety cutoff.I cant think of a system that doesnt have one

The diagrams look excellent. I didnt go over them with a fine tooth comb or anything, but I will at some point. I like wiring schematics better than most books. LOL
I dont see a need for a diode in a coil for a small relay, it however would be necessary for and AC clutch as there is a substantial amount of current flowing through them( like 8-14 amps usually) and that can make a pretty good discharge when the field lapses.

Last edited by latech; 06-15-2011 at 05:51 PM.
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old 06-15-2011, 06:06 PM
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One thing to think about, that when on low speed , your configuration would not run if either motor went bad.
Also with the dual make employed the way you have it configured, the fans would allways run on high speed when the trinary activated the dual make.
All relays would be on, so it would allways run in high speed.

Last edited by latech; 06-15-2011 at 06:13 PM.
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 06-15-2011, 06:19 PM
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you will need 2 pressure switches to run the fans with a hi low speed option, or a pressure transducer(sensor) and a controller (digital) to switch them according to the pressure.
Or if you have a computer controlled vehicle , use the cooling fan request from the PCM for hi speed when engine temp neccesitataes and use the ac trinary switch to activate the low speed fan arrangement.
there are aftermarket fan controllers for the hotrodder that run the fans when the engine coolant is hot enough to request it, the signal from that could run the high speed config, the low speed like I said , could be set up to run them when AC pressures are high enough to request it.

Last edited by latech; 06-15-2011 at 06:25 PM.
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old 06-15-2011, 06:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by latech
you will need 2 pressure switches to run the fans with a hi low speed option, or a pressure transducer(sensor) and a controller (digital) to switch them according to the pressure.
Or if you have a computer controlled vehicle , use the cooling fan request from the PCM for hi speed when engine temp neccesitataes and use the ac trinary switch to activate the low speed fan arrangement.
there are aftermarket fan controllers for the hotrodder that run the fans when the engine coolant is hot enough to request it, the signal from that could run the high speed config, the low speed like I said , could be set up to run them when AC pressures are high enough to request it.
I'm going to have my trinary switch turn the fans on to high only. The coolant temperature will control the 2 speed operation.

However, since I'm using the Dakota Digital controller, it would be easy for me to change my mind and hook the trinary switch fan wire to the low or "L" wire in the schematic and have it turn the fans to low instead.

Hooking the trinary switch wire to the A/C connector on the DD controller only allows the fans to turn onto high.
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