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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 01-24-2010, 01:40 PM
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Trinary switch wiring ?

Hi, I'm finishing up a Vintage Air install on my 72 K5 and I have a couple of questions about wiring the trinary switch I'd like to get clarification on so I only have to do it once. I basically understand the trinary wiring with the exception of two things. Here's what I'm dealing with.

1. I have installed the Ford Windstar dual fans and I'm using an adjustable fan control module with an integrated 40 amp relay. It has a green wire coming from it that is to be connected to the ac clutch. This is where my starts. According to the VA trinary wiring schematic my fan hot (purple) lead should go to terminal 87 on the ac relay...So here's my first ?

Can I wire the clutch wire (green) from the fan control module to terminal 87 on the ac relay and then wire everything else as indicated by VA?

Now the next thing I don't understand on the VA wiring schematic is the white wire coming from terminal 86 on the relay and going through a switch, stated as, (manual or engine temp sensor.) Is this a toggle switch? Why would I need that? Also, when they say (engine temp sensor) are they saying this wire should be connected to the ground side of the coolant temp sensor, or the probe sensor wires of the fan control module?

I appreciate any help I can get in understanding how to do this. The funny thing is I've changed a lot of the wiring on this rig, including doing a MegaSquirt install and I've not had too much trouble with wiring until now. It seems like this should be simple, but I just don't get it.

Here are the schematics I'm dealing with.

Thanks, Rob
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Old 01-24-2010, 02:59 PM
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Easy to get confused.

Think of the A/C and the fan control as TWO separate systems.

I noticed you have a dual fan setup. Typically the OEM's wire the fans so that ONE fan runs whenever the A/C is on. So I would wire in the fan control to use BOTH fans when your engine/temp switch says it's needs to be cooled. This system must have primary fan control at all times.

Now the A/C can be wired in to a single fan via the relay pictorial from VA.

So this would suggest pairing the BLUE from the fan control with the PURPLE from the VA relay going to a SINGLE fan. This would allow the single fan to run whenever the A/C is on AND whenever the fan control deems it necessary to have a single fan on. I don't think you want both fans roaring if only the A/C in on. The ORANGE from the fan control will go to the SECOND fan. Make sure the fans are the same at 14 volts. Sometimes one is faster than the other. The ORANGE from the fan control should probably go to the fastest fan if this is the case.

The WHITE from the VA relay could go to a toggle. Really, with the fan control, you don't need it. But you could use a toggle as a redundant system backup if the fan control goes whacko. Of course the toggle will only control one fan. Think of it as 'limp home mode'.


Megasquirt in a '72 blazer 'eh? this I gotta see.
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Old 01-24-2010, 08:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C-10
Easy to get confused.

Thanks for helping C-10, I think I understand most of what you're telling me, just a little more clarification if you don't mind.

You said: So I would wire in the fan control to use BOTH fans when your engine/temp switch says it's needs to be cooled. This system must have primary fan control at all times.

This is how the fan controller operates...even though the two fan hot leads are wired to different wires from the controller, the both run when it calls to cool. I didn't think it would work this way, but it does.

You said: Now the A/C can be wired in to a single fan via the relay pictorial from VA.

Ok

You said: So this would suggest pairing the BLUE from the fan control with the PURPLE from the VA relay going to a SINGLE fan. This would allow the single fan to run whenever the A/C is on AND whenever the fan control deems it necessary to have a single fan on. I don't think you want both fans roaring if only the A/C in on.

So by wiring this way, I will essentially be bypassing the fan controller so that the ac system can just run the one fan when it calls for cooling, is that correct?

So then, where will the GREEN ac clutch wire from the fan controller tie in? Will it go directly to the clutch, one of the trinary wires, or will it even be utilized?

You said: The WHITE from the VA relay could go to a toggle. Really, with the fan control, you don't need it. But you could use a toggle as a redundant system backup if the fan control goes whacko. Of course the toggle will only control one fan. Think of it as 'limp home mode'.

So this wire will not be used unless I want manual fan control, is that correct?


You said: Megasquirt in a '72 blazer 'eh? this I gotta see.
Here's a few pics, the computer isn't mounted yet, it will mount inside the glove box after I finish with the VA install. However, the relay board is mounted and wired, as you can see, behind the glove box. I also stripped out and incorporated a power center from a newer truck to utilize the fuses and relays for needed items. For instance, I put the starter on a relay, and the ac relay from the center will also be used. I also used the power center to run fused 12v switched and un-switched power to terminal blocks mounted inside the cab for in-cab accessories and wiring.

The engine is a 98 Vortec 350 bored 30 over with Flat top pistons and a comp cams 268 XFI cam. The Vortec heads use beehive springs and retainers to accommodate the lift. Injection is obviously a TPI unit from a Camaro with the Vortec TPI Intake manifold. I also installed a 700r4 trans and NP 241 transfer case.

I've been tuning the MS and went for my first test drive last week. It runs great. What's also very cool is it'll do a cold start and run up to temp complete with fast idle up and down all without ever touching the throttle. I'm thinking a remote start might be in store.
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Old 01-24-2010, 11:54 PM
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Easy to get confused, ha.

You know what, ignore post #2 altogether. I didn't notice the GREEN lead from the fan controller. This wire changes everything. It will sense the A/C clutch coming on and thus bringing in the fan or fans. Not sure if it will do one or two for A/C

Ignore the VA relay, the fan control does in fact do it all. I handles all the current for the fans. The BLUE and ORANGE will simply go to each fan.

If you're paranoid about a fan control failure while on the road, you could keep the VA relay hooked to the fans and a toggle at the other end for a backup...

So... This GREEN wire from the fan control drawing should now hook to the BLUE (also says black/green or red/white) A/C clutch wire shown in the VA drawing.

Last edited by C-10; 01-25-2010 at 12:09 AM. Reason: spelling
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Old 01-25-2010, 12:05 AM
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And on the K5... That is friggin' awesome. I ALWAYS thought GM put the TPI in the wrong thing. They are better suited for a truck. TORQUE.

I actually have a complete TPI 305 ('85 MAF) setting around with the painless harness and GM computer.

One day it will go in something. Maybe with a MS computer...

Did you build your MS board?
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Old 01-25-2010, 12:34 PM
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Rob, If you want to enjoy the benefits of a trinary switch while using your fan controller, you could also wire it this way:



The benefits of using the trinary switch to control the fan rather than having the fan come on only when the A/C clutch is engaged is as follows:

1. If the natural air flow from driving down the road is sufficient to cool the condenser, the radiator fan will not run (unless engine temp dictates it), which saves wear and tear on the radiator fan.

2. In a situation where the radiator fan cannot keep up with the demands of the condenser (like a hot day in traffic) the clutch section of the trinary switch will cut off the A/C clutch when the refrigerant pressure gets too high. In this situation, you would want the radiator fan to keep running even though the clutch is off, which would cool the refrigerant and reduce the pressure to the point where the compressor can begin operating again.

I mean no disrespect to C-10, what he recommended will work, and it is very common to do it that way. I just thought that as long as you already have a trinary switch, you might want to use it.

Hope this helps...
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Old 01-25-2010, 01:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe G
2. In a situation where the radiator fan cannot keep up with the demands of the condenser (like a hot day in traffic) ...I mean no disrespect to C-10, what he recommended will work, and it is very common to do it that way....
Yet another thing I missed, the trinary switch, geeez...

Zero, zilch offense taken... Wish you'd gotten here sooner!
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Old 01-25-2010, 02:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C-10
....Zero, zilch offense taken...
Cool.

One more thing I should have edited out of that diagram is the "temp or manual switch" shown at the bottom. That should just be fused key-on power.
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Old 01-25-2010, 06:57 PM
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Very cool...thanks to both of you. I am a little paranoid about the fan controller failure because I have read about people having relay failures with only one relay serving a dual fan set-up. However, I always worry about stuff that "may" happen, usually it never does. So with that said, I'm going to go ahead and wire it as Joe suggested, with the thought that if the fan controller ever does fail, I'll just run a jumper to get me to where the controller can be replaced. BTW, I got that controller as an over the counter item at AZ for I think right around $35, so it is a readily available item if it did crap out.

Thanks Guys
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