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  #2671 (permalink)  
Old 04-20-2011, 08:05 PM
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I would not consider the 61 chevy to be a mid size car, but the answer I am
looking for predates it by decades.

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  #2672 (permalink)  
Old 04-20-2011, 09:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jetnow1
I would not consider the 61 chevy to be a mid size car, but the answer I am
looking for predates it by decades.
This is your question but it is kind of misleading. The true muscle car ERA did not start until the 60's, so anything decades before that would not be a muscle car, Gm had a v-8 in 1916, they had different size cars, but non that were a mid-size, the word mid-size would not even been a word back then or up through the 40s.

They had A V-8, A V12, A V-16, But they were not in mid -size cars, or were they muscle cars. even at the end of the 40s Cad. And Olds. had V-8s, but were not mid -size or muscle cars.

According to the wiki mid-size did not start until after 1960,

It's great you want to play the game we like that the more the merrier, and we can use any means to find a answer, but I don't think with what you asked we would ever get the answer. Now I could be out to lunch on this, but when you said muscle car and decades before 1960 it's not there.

Bob

Last edited by 35terraplane; 04-20-2011 at 09:28 PM. Reason: correct
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  #2673 (permalink)  
Old 04-21-2011, 05:12 AM
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I agree the musle car era started with the gto, but it is not the first time
GM put a big car engine into their midsize car. If that is not the definition
od a factory musle car what is?
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Old 04-21-2011, 05:17 AM
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I would define any manufacturer who made 3 or more sizes or models with
different wheelbases as having a mid size- what else would it be?
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  #2675 (permalink)  
Old 04-21-2011, 07:48 AM
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It's pretty hard when there is no definitive answer. Many would say it was 61 with the 409 others would say 64 with the Goat, but other than that I personally have never heard the term "Muscle car" used other than some media type outsider.

Brian
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  #2676 (permalink)  
Old 04-21-2011, 07:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jetnow1
I would define any manufacturer who made 3 or more sizes or models with
different wheelbases as having a mid size- what else would it be?
Granted they had different size cars, but the ones with the big engines were not cheap, they were Cadillac, they had big engines lots of CI, not very much horsepower, maybe in your eyes they were muscle cars, but no one else called them that. As far as the different size cars the wheelbase might have changed as little as 2", there again the factory did not call them mid-size, they were luxury cars for the high middle class, the rich, and the very rich.

Ford had the 4-CYL, and the V-8 Flathead. The first Flathead had 60 HP, hardly a muscle car, sure it was faster, but they were in the same size body.

GM had the 6 in there lower priced cars, then they made cars that cost more they put different engines in them, most of the time it was because who made the body for them for anyone car.

I could see where one might call them muscle cars, but believe me it was not the factory or anyone else of the day.

Bob
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  #2677 (permalink)  
Old 04-21-2011, 08:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jetnow1
I would not consider the 61 chevy to be a mid size car, but the answer I am
looking for predates it by decades.
You are right the 61 Impala was a full size car in GM's terms, the Nova was a mid-size car. That is when the term mid-size started. Not decades before.

I don't know your age, but I would say you are a younger fella. There are guys on here that have been playing with these toys, or making their living from them for years. If you were to go back and look at some of the questions, you would see guys have the answers for them almost every time.

We are happy to have you here, just like us old guys you learn new stuff all the time. And we mess up on questions also. I have asked things that had no answer so don't feel bad. Like I said you can use anything to ask or answer a question.

Bob
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Old 04-21-2011, 09:01 PM
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Majority opinion seems to feel the question is not legit. I will bow to the
majority. The answer I was looking for was the 1939 buick century
which was given the engine from the top of the line roadmaster.

I will pass the question back dinger

PS 35 terraplane- I am 5 years older than Martin SR.
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  #2679 (permalink)  
Old 04-21-2011, 09:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jetnow1
Majority opinion seems to feel the question is not legit. I will bow to the
majority. The answer I was looking for was the 1939 buick century
which was given the engine from the top of the line roadmaster.

I will pass the question back dinger

PS 35 terraplane- I am 5 years older than Martin SR.
Jet I guess your no young fella then, well younger than some of us, but you are catching up.LOL One thing about Brian, he asks some of the hardest damn questions on here, And he also answers the oddball stuff pretty fast.

Why don't you go ahead and ask another question, I'm sure dinger would say the same, I hope I didn't hit any soft spots, like I said we just like to have a good time, and even us old guys learn something once in awhile.

Like I said before you can get your questions from anywhere, also your answers.
You can go back as far as you want, but when you do that you have to make sure the answer can be gotten, or there aren't two or three answers, a lot of the history of the auto is clouded at best. If you dare you can go across the pond for questions, again be careful as a couple of people might have been working on the same thing, and who made it first can be in doubt.

Glad to have you on the thread, I see you have been on the board longer than me. Have fun.

Bob
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  #2680 (permalink)  
Old 04-21-2011, 10:41 PM
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Jet, that Century was a "factory hotrod" that is for sure. Did you guys know that Buick won more NASCAR races in 55 than Chevy, with the Century? That is what I was told, don't know how accurate it is.

And yes Jet, shoot out another.

Brian
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  #2681 (permalink)  
Old 04-22-2011, 12:28 AM
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Hi Brian
Your information is faulty. Buick won only a few NASCAR races in 55
51to 54 races were dominated by Hudson, 55 to 57 by Chrysler, Oldsmobile was Chrysler's competition. Chevy wasn't heavy into racing until 57 (Black Widows) Buick wasn't back into serious racing until 77 when they were allowed to put Chevy engines in them.
Rich

http://www.fireballroberts.com/buick_test.htm
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  #2682 (permalink)  
Old 04-22-2011, 08:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richard stewart 3rd
Hi Brian
Your information is faulty. Buick won only a few NASCAR races in 55
51to 54 races were dominated by Hudson, 55 to 57 by Chrysler, Oldsmobile was Chrysler's competition. Chevy wasn't heavy into racing until 57 (Black Widows) Buick wasn't back into serious racing until 77 when they were allowed to put Chevy engines in them.
Rich

http://www.fireballroberts.com/buick_test.htm
Goes to show you, I heard that from a Buick nut. LOLOL Don't think it was because they were "allowed to but the Chevy engines in" it was because Buick didn't want anything to do with racing. Now this much I know, Buick folded up their racing program in 57ish. Or may be GM made the decision for them but Olds and Buick were redirected to the "luxury old man" market and that is the direction they went up for many years.

Speaking of Muscle cars pickup a car mag like MotorTrend in 1965 and see a road test between all the GM muscle. The Buick Gran Sport that was provided was an automatic with 3.08 and AC! While the Goat was a four speed strippo with 4.11 gears. It was easy to see who was supposed to win the shootout.

Brian
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  #2683 (permalink)  
Old 04-22-2011, 09:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MARTINSR
Or may be GM made the decision for them but Olds and Buick were redirected to the "luxury old man" market and that is the direction they went up for many years.

Brian
Brian - I as well as many others well know where your automotive heart lies and I too could have been there, but in today's world and to me, one of the most terrifying and recurring encounters that I have while driving is a fairly new white Buick, driven or weaving down the street by a little old man/lady(q-tips ), braking at each curve and well under the speed limit . We have several in my neighborhood. Then there are those while driving those white Buicks on the interstate who are being "safe" at 10 mph under the limit in the middle lane while the traffic flow is trying to drive at 10 over.

This applies to many white Toyota Camry's and Solara's as well

(yep, I'm getting there, but it wont be in a white Buick)

Dave W
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  #2684 (permalink)  
Old 04-22-2011, 10:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irelands child
Brian - I as well as many others well know where your automotive heart lies and I too could have been there, but in today's world and to me, one of the most terrifying and recurring encounters that I have while driving is a fairly new white Buick, driven or weaving down the street by a little old man/lady(q-tips ), braking at each curve and well under the speed limit . We have several in my neighborhood. Then there are those while driving those white Buicks on the interstate who are being "safe" at 10 mph under the limit in the middle lane while the traffic flow is trying to drive at 10 over.

This applies to many white Toyota Camry's and Solara's as well

(yep, I'm getting there, but it wont be in a white Buick)

Dave W
Dave if you would not have said it, I was going to ask when you were getting a white Buick.LOL

Bob
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  #2685 (permalink)  
Old 04-22-2011, 10:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jetnow1
Majority opinion seems to feel the question is not legit. I will bow to the
majority. The answer I was looking for was the 1939 buick century
which was given the engine from the top of the line roadmaster.

I will pass the question back dinger

PS 35 terraplane- I am 5 years older than Martin SR.
Hey, it's all in fun. You can see where the previous question I asked was too vague, if you don't get an answer in a day or two, it might be too vague or tough, try another question. there aren't any rules here per se, try another question. Your 39 Buick was a good one, but i think where it went wrong was that there was a thread a few years back discussing the first 'Muscle Car', there was a million or so answers. Fire away.....We're waiting. Dan
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