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-   -   Trouble bleeding brakes. (http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/trouble-bleeding-brakes-229954.html)

roger1 02-24-2013 03:55 PM

Trouble bleeding brakes.
 
Let me first say I've done many of complete brake jobs in my life including masters.
I've never had trouble bleeding brakes ever before. I used to wonder why so many people had trouble on all the car forums I belong to.

Well, I'm having trouble.

1983 El Camino with power brakes. Front Disc and Rear Drum

Just did a complete brake job.
New front calipers, rear cylinders, master cylinder, all 3 hoses and of course pads and shoes. Rotors and Drums were both turned.

I bench bled the new master using instructions that said "New and Improved Procdure"
You just put plugs in the 2 ports and keep manually pumping with a dowel until no more bubbles appear in the reservoir.
That was a new one on me. In the past they always came with tubes that you clip onto the rim of the master and pump the fluid all the way through.
Anyway, I did it the new way and it worked the way they described.

After getting it back on the car, I was able to bleed the brakes normally. I got my wife to pump the brakes for me. I went all the way around 3 times.

I thought I got all the air out. It acted like it. All the brakes were working with the car up in the air.

Test drove and have a mushy pedal. It will stop the car, but they don't feel good at all and the car didn't stop without pushing pretty darn hard. It feels like the pedal is going all the way down when I do that.

I put the car back up in the air and used my vacuum bleeder. RR, LR, RF and LR. Pulled about 3 oz of fluid out of each one.

Still got the mushy pedal that feels like it goes all the way down.

Should I re-bleed the master or do I just have stubborn air trapped somewhere else?

Oh, I didn't change the proportioning valve. It's original and 30 years old. Should I replace that?

crownver 02-24-2013 05:44 PM

Are you sure you got the calipers on the correct sides? Not saying you do but it happened to me once. Careless mistake. Took me several hours of bleeding and about a quart of fluid before I figured it out. Bleeders have to be on the top of the caliper.

roger1 02-27-2013 11:39 AM

Back on this project today.

I went to the auto parts store and picked up a master cylinder bleed kit so I could put the master back on the bench and bleed it the old conventional way.

Got the master back on the bench and have been bleeding it for an hour with the conventional method.

I cannot get the rearward (front brake) part of the reservoir to quit spewing tiny bubbles from the inside. I'm warn out from pumping. No bubbles at all from the front reservoir compartment. That appears to be bled just fine.

This does not sound normal to me. It seems that everytime I've done this in the past, the tiny bubbles would completely disappear. Sometimes that would take a good deal of pumping. But, I've pumped this one to death and it keeps doing it.

Bad Master?

Again, this is a Wagner re-built I got from RockAuto.

Advice will definitely be appreciated. I'm about ready to eat this one go to NAPA and get a new and not re-built one.

MARTINSR 02-27-2013 12:08 PM

The last time I got a new mastercyl the guy at the parts store offered this tool.

http://static.summitracing.com/globa...10-5000MCB.jpg

I thought WTH? looked like a friggin joke. I took it home and bled the thing so friggin easy it I couldn't believe it.

I recommend it, it was cheap and eliminated bunch of work and fluid all over, it was just too easy.

Brian

33Willys77 02-27-2013 12:20 PM

If you keep getting bubbles, I would suspect the master is not good. Air must be getting around the seals. That is not the first time I came accross that issue.

poncho62 02-27-2013 12:27 PM

The most trouble I ever had bleeding brakes was with "G" body GMs....Them and 70s Corvettes......I just kept bleeding over and over and then all of a sudden would have pedal........

roger1 02-27-2013 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 33Willys77 (Post 1651249)
If you keep getting bubbles, I would suspect the master is not good. Air must be getting around the seals. That is not the first time I came accross that issue.

Got to be.

I just called Napa. They will get a new one for me from the warehouse by tomorrow morning. I could have gotten a new Fenco today from Autozone but I was unsure about that brand.
Napa usually is pretty quality conscious so I hope this is the right decision.

Looks like I'll just take the loss on the one from RockAuto. I don't think it's worth the shipping back to try and get a refund. It was $20.79 plus $4.00 shipping.

If I had left the original one on, I guess I wouldn't be dealing with this. It was working fine. I just thought it would be good to replace it since it was 30 years old.

NEW NAPA MASTER

S10xGN 02-28-2013 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roger1 (Post 1651257)
Got to be.

I just called Napa. They will get a new one for me from the warehouse by tomorrow morning. I could have gotten a new Fenco today from Autozone but I was unsure about that brand.
Napa usually is pretty quality conscious so I hope this is the right decision.

Looks like I'll just take the loss on the one from RockAuto. I don't think it's worth the shipping back to try and get a refund. It was $20.79 plus $4.00 shipping.

If I had left the original one on, I guess I wouldn't be dealing with this. It was working fine. I just thought it would be good to replace it since it was 30 years old.

NEW NAPA MASTER

Been there and done that all too many times! :D

Russ

T-bucket23 02-28-2013 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MARTINSR (Post 1651244)
The last time I got a new mastercyl the guy at the parts store offered this tool.

http://static.summitracing.com/globa...10-5000MCB.jpg

I thought WTH? looked like a friggin joke. I took it home and bled the thing so friggin easy it I couldn't believe it.

I recommend it, it was cheap and eliminated bunch of work and fluid all over, it was just too easy.

Brian

So educate me. Exactly how do you use that.

macrobert68 02-28-2013 06:56 PM

my trick to bleding brakes is open all cylinders at the same time watch your master cyl and keep it full .gravity will work every time :rolleyes:.Also check those rear brakes if they are not snug it takes most of your pressure to spred the shoes resulting in a mushy pedal

good luck hope this helps


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