trunk lid problems - Page 2 - Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board
Hotrodders.com -- Hot Rod Forum



Register FAQ Search Today's Posts Unanswered Posts Auto Escrow Insurance Auto Loans
Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board > Tech Help> Body - Exterior
User Name
Password
lost password?   |   register now

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #16 (permalink)  
Old 09-25-2009, 05:05 PM
deadbodyman's Avatar
Registered User
 
Last wiki edit: Stripping paint Last photo:
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: augusta,ga.
Age: 54
Posts: 6,258
Wiki Edits: 11

Thanks: 28
Thanked 476 Times in 404 Posts
The first thing I do is take out the latch and hinges and see if it'll fit without them...if it does GREAT !!!then adjust the bumpers so it sets right ,in the hole ,then fasten the hinges ...if theres a problem its in the hinge....start with the hinges ..keep the latch out and install it LAST...Personaly I dont use shims It looks amiturish and cobbled and a pro will spot them at ten paces ...heat the hinge cherry red and bend it slightly up or down or side to side with the deck attached (of coarse)try to close it see the differance and go more or less accordingly this will get the back up or down (if there are no adjustments) and gaps side to side.... as far as the latch goes that should be simple....if youve got the deck adjusted so it fits properly without the latch in it dont fit with the latch....hire a midget and have him figure it out inside the trunk with a flashlight and some tools. BTW the latch will pull the deck to the side also so pay attention to the side gaps when adjusting up and down....

    Advertisement
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #17 (permalink)  
Old 09-25-2009, 06:04 PM
MARTINSR's Avatar
Brian Martin,Freelance adviser
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: San francisco bay area
Age: 55
Posts: 13,234
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 1,355
Thanked 1,192 Times in 1,051 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by deadbodyman
.Personaly I dont use shims It looks amiturish and cobbled and a pro will spot them at ten paces ...heat the hinge cherry red and bend it slightly up or down or side to side with the deck attached ....
That is a little harsh there hotrod, "amiturish and cobbled" . Yes it is less than perfect to do this, but it is not amiturish. Do you know how they aligned it at the factory? They hit the inside of the lid with a large hammer smashing the inner stucture! Look under the lids of this vintage "A" body and you will see these large dents, they were done at the factory!

Secondly, the car is painted and "done" so heating a hinge with a torch is out of the question.

Thirdly, bending a hinge with a torch just perfect for the perfect fit is a stretch for a pro let alone a home hobbiest. It would likely be bend up and down a few times and still resort to a shim in the end for perfection.

Ron, you would be surprised how little of a "shim" (you can use a washer and painted black you will barely see it) it takes to move that lid down. It will NOT take as much to lower it as it is high. It usually takes just one washer to lower it enough.

As I said before, if you push the lid all the way up and then push it further after it stops you can bend the hinge and the underside of the lid where the hinge bolts on. You will have a LOT of leverage by pushing up on the back of the lid, so be careful. But if this car wasn't painted this would be the first thing I would do. Now that it is all painted, I would still do it, but CARE must be taken as to not hit the lid on the upper body panel!

After that, shim it and forget it. No one is going to judging you or your method from this side.

Brian
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #18 (permalink)  
Old 09-26-2009, 05:18 AM
shine's Avatar
SPI Thug
 

Last journal entry: some progress
Last photo:
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: bluff dale texas
Posts: 2,732
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 212 Times in 169 Posts
factory did not use heat nor does anyone i know. most times it will tweak like brian said but shims are the accepted and correct way to do it . use shims not washers .
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #19 (permalink)  
Old 09-26-2009, 06:30 AM
deadbodyman's Avatar
Registered User
 
Last wiki edit: Stripping paint Last photo:
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: augusta,ga.
Age: 54
Posts: 6,258
Wiki Edits: 11

Thanks: 28
Thanked 476 Times in 404 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by gto_ron
Where do I start with this problem? The deck lid sits 1/4" above the quarter panel on the driver's side and at least 1/8" on the drivers side. The latch is adjusted down as far as possible but it seems like the hinges are holding the lid up too high. Look at the attached pictures. I have masking tape on all the edges for chip protection. I don't have the rubber trunk bumpers installed yet. Any guidance is appreciated.

Ron
OK ,so I retract my shim statement...the mans deck is alresdy sitting to high so shims will do nothing but make it worse anyway... and we'll be argueing a point about opinions that wont help him at all......so back to the point.... dissassemble all connecting hardware hinges & latch etc...Place the deck in the hole ,if the fit is good and gaps can be acceptable adjust hight with the bumpers.....(use masking tape to hold it in place)...if you can get it to fit like like this.....your ok ,no bent hinges and the deck isnt twisted now all you got to do is move the hinges to the deck (by what ever means you find fitting) removing torsion bars or springs will be a big help(reinstall them after the latch) for an easier job. Ok so once the hinges have been adjusted to the posision of the deck,the latch should just fall in place,adjust it by simply latching it to to deck (while opend),close the deck,tape it in position,have the midget tighten the latch from the inside."Simple" no need for shims or beating it with a sledge hammer (hehehe) we've come a long way since those day's (I thought) But all & all you've learned a good leason on fit & finish allways fit before you finish....You wont forget this lesson so its a win win
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #20 (permalink)  
Old 09-26-2009, 06:52 AM
Chris Ryan
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: sc
Age: 47
Posts: 38
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
I know you said your trunk latch is all the way down.... When I'm aligning doors, trunks, hoods etc. I ususally remove the door latches or trunk latches or hood latches to do my alignment. When I have all gaps where I like them, I will then install my latches.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #21 (permalink)  
Old 09-26-2009, 06:54 AM
shine's Avatar
SPI Thug
 

Last journal entry: some progress
Last photo:
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: bluff dale texas
Posts: 2,732
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 212 Times in 169 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by hamrad
I had the same problem with my 74 Trans Am. I could not figure out how to get one side of my trunk lid to line up. It was about 1/4 inch higher than the quarter panel. After I read this response and tried shimming it it lined up perfectly. I thought it would not work the way the hinges are welded to the body but sure enough it did! Thanks for this post.

you can raise or lower a hood or trunk with shims if you know what your doing. just as you use shims to realign the door opening to make doors fit. on most older cars there are no adjustment at the door. adjustments are done by shimming the body a-pillar or b-pillar.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #22 (permalink)  
Old 09-26-2009, 09:31 AM
deadbodyman's Avatar
Registered User
 
Last wiki edit: Stripping paint Last photo:
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: augusta,ga.
Age: 54
Posts: 6,258
Wiki Edits: 11

Thanks: 28
Thanked 476 Times in 404 Posts
shims (shivers) also work well with old wooden boats...as the timbers swell and contract they are shimmed to take up the slack hence the expression "shiver me timbers" state of the art technology back then..if I see a car with shims in the doors or the deck I'll walk on by and buy something else and remember that dealers name and never waste my time looking at another one of his cars...I'm just a new guy(35 yrs) but I've never seen a shim in a factory door or deck...Fenders ,yes but they cant be seen..If a cars older and has no adjustments I'll make them adjustable and let everyone ask "how'd you do that"? Some I'll tell...the ones that'll listen.I put 2000 grand am deck hinges in my 48 plymouth with 4 gas filled holder uppers useing this method...it works ....and no shims.But thats besides the point the first step when a problem like this arises is to see if it fits without any obstructions the choice of how to make it fit all depends on this and is up to you and your abilities...even if a shim is painted black there will be the tell tail gap between the deck and the hinge...if your deck still has a 1/4" on one side and 1/8" on the other it may be twisted and can be twisted back and lifting it till it bends the inner structure is also a pretty good way to get the deck back down but you could be in for a lot of trouble if you dont check the fit without anything holding it on FIRST... It could also be the 1/4s are not right so start at the beginning and dont assume ANYTHING....Keep this in mind 75% of all cars have damage before thier 5yrs old so imagine how much hidden damage can be found in an older car.This car(camero) had the same problem ..the rear of the deck was up 1/2" and the cause was due to someone leaning on it while the quarter's were off..The deck wasnt up at all ,the coner of the car was down....wierd things happen...you can see how it was fixed...The burn marks on the grand am hinges I put on the 48 are clearly visible and show where the heat was applied to the hinges,the heat never got close to the inner skin because I was carefull and did it before paint.... hinges can also be bent cold by supporting the curve of the hinge with a 2x4 cut at the proper length... then lifting or pushing the deck...the latch is the least of your trouble....
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	100_2085 (Small).JPG
Views:	66
Size:	46.2 KB
ID:	40889   Click image for larger version

Name:	100_4260 (Small).jpg
Views:	59
Size:	47.5 KB
ID:	40890   Click image for larger version

Name:	100_2037 (Small).JPG
Views:	63
Size:	52.3 KB
ID:	40891   Click image for larger version

Name:	100_5288 (Small).jpg
Views:	57
Size:	26.3 KB
ID:	40892  

Last edited by deadbodyman; 09-26-2009 at 09:51 AM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #23 (permalink)  
Old 09-26-2009, 09:37 AM
MARTINSR's Avatar
Brian Martin,Freelance adviser
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: San francisco bay area
Age: 55
Posts: 13,234
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 1,355
Thanked 1,192 Times in 1,051 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by deadbodyman
OK ,so I retract my shim statement...the mans deck is alresdy sitting to high so shims will do nothing but make it worse anyway... and we'll be argueing a point about opinions that wont help him at all......so back to the point.... dissassemble all connecting hardware hinges & latch etc...Place the deck in the hole ,if the fit is good and gaps can be acceptable adjust hight with the bumpers.....(use masking tape to hold it in place)...if you can get it to fit like like this.....your ok ,no bent hinges and the deck isnt twisted now all you got to do is move the hinges to the deck (by what ever means you find fitting) removing torsion bars or springs will be a big help(reinstall them after the latch) for an easier job. Ok so once the hinges have been adjusted to the posision of the deck,the latch should just fall in place,adjust it by simply latching it to to deck (while opend),close the deck,tape it in position,have the midget tighten the latch from the inside."Simple" no need for shims or beating it with a sledge hammer (hehehe) we've come a long way since those day's (I thought) But all & all you've learned a good leason on fit & finish allways fit before you finish....You wont forget this lesson so its a win win

Deadman, I am sorry buddy but you are all wrong on this and are complicating it beyond the moon.

You CAN shim the lid LOWER. This one is high at the rear, shim it lower. And the "bumpers" aren't adjustable! It has quarter sized rubber bumpers that are about a quarter inch thick that stick thru holes in the in the deck lid with a little arrow pointie thing hanging on the back. That is it, no screw type adjustment like on a hood.

And the hinges aren't adjustable at all and in fact as I remember don't even bolt in! They use one pin going thru a welded in piece on the underside of the upper rear panel thru the end of the hinge, NO adjustment.

So you shim the lid at the hinge to bring the front down and then put the striker up or down to adjust the rear.

Edit: By the way Ron, one thing that I don't remember seeing being mentioned by you is if the trunk rubber SEAL has been installed!

If you are using a bad trunk seal all bets are off on this alignment!

Some brands are WAY too thick (hell, I had an NOS original GM one that I was planning on using that was JUNK and WAY to thick!) and will hold the lid up.

If you installed the rubber in there wrong, it could cause you fits with the lid as well. As you round the corners up in the front it wants to roll in and it is REAL easy to screw it up. What I did on my Gran Sport was to tape it down with masking tape so the "flap" of the rubber was down around the corner. After it sat with the lid shut on it for a week or so I was able to remove the tape and it stayed where it belonged.

So tell me, have you installed the rubber and what brand was it?

Brian

Last edited by MARTINSR; 09-26-2009 at 09:54 AM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #24 (permalink)  
Old 09-26-2009, 10:11 AM
MARTINSR's Avatar
Brian Martin,Freelance adviser
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: San francisco bay area
Age: 55
Posts: 13,234
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 1,355
Thanked 1,192 Times in 1,051 Posts
Just so everyone is clear about how the shim will LOWER the lid, check out the attached sketch...

Just as if you ROTATE the hood hinge on one of these cars to raise and lower the hood it will raise or lower it WAY more than simply raising the hinge up or down on the fender. Shimming the trunk hinge will effectively "rotate" the angle notation to the axis of the hinge and raise or LOWER the lid.

http://www.isner.com/tutorials/quatS..._spells_14.htm

At least that is how I understand what is happening.

Brian
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0004.JPG
Views:	68
Size:	66.2 KB
ID:	40893  
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #25 (permalink)  
Old 09-26-2009, 10:24 AM
MARTINSR's Avatar
Brian Martin,Freelance adviser
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: San francisco bay area
Age: 55
Posts: 13,234
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 1,355
Thanked 1,192 Times in 1,051 Posts
Deadman, listen, I don't know what to say. You are right, we all do things different. I personally would have made the mounting adjustable on that lid and no bending of hinges would have been needed. On the Camaro, it is supported ALL WRONG for cutting all that structure out it's no wonder there were panel fit problems! HOLY CRAP, you're lucky it didn't narrow the car by a foot the way it's supported!

Think about this, how could raising or lower the quarter have anything to do with the relation between the hinge and the lid on that car?

You are way over complicating this, the car is painted, shim the friggin lid and get on with life!

Building a car from scratch or modifying it is a whole different thing. Restoring a car from bare metal, it's a whole differnet story. Are you kidding me? If I were doing this car in pre-filler stage I would grab a hold of that lid and bend the %$#^ out of it and be done with it. But that can't be done here. If I were doing it pre-filler I would think nothing of grabbing my spoon and hammer and whacking it up or down along the edges to make the thing fit perfect, that can't be done here.

Brian

Last edited by MARTINSR; 09-26-2009 at 10:46 AM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #26 (permalink)  
Old 09-26-2009, 09:26 PM
gto_ron's Avatar
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: SW Ohio
Posts: 140
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
trunk problems

Sorry I missed the dialogue but I've been away from the computer and the garage for a while( grandkids ).

1. To answer Brian's questions, yes the trunk seal is installed. It's made by A&M Sof-Seal, I think they're a quality product but I'll let others on the Forum add their opinion. The seal is installed correctly; I know this because it took me an hour to figure out which way it went, both ways looked right so I checked the shop manual.

2. I've learned my lesson about not painting the car until all the panels are fitted. Actually when this car was in primer I laid the trunk lid in the opening just to check that the lid fit OK between the quarters and was satisfied with the gaps. I realize now I should have installed the hinges and bolted the lid to them for the fit-check. I've done several frame-off restorations( 60's GM A-bodies) and this is the first one I've had so much trouble with. I guess I got lucky on the previous ones.

3. What kind of shims are we talking about? I have been using washers and didn't realize it mattered until Shine mentioned it.

I realize there are some conflicting opinions on this thread but I really appreciate the responses and take each one very seriously. As a hobbyist I depend on info from the Forum plus what I've learned from my mistakes( expensive!)

again thanks for all responses


regards

Ron
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #27 (permalink)  
Old 09-27-2009, 12:44 AM
MARTINSR's Avatar
Brian Martin,Freelance adviser
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: San francisco bay area
Age: 55
Posts: 13,234
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 1,355
Thanked 1,192 Times in 1,051 Posts
This is a shim, your car is likely full of them on the front sheetmetal bolts.

This one is actually for wheel alignment purposes because it has the little "handle" on it. Fender shims don't have that handle but for some reason I couldn't find a photo of one. Personally, I see no difference in using the washer other than it is round instead of square. And, for that matter I have gotten washers and cut them with tin snips to make what ever shape you want. Take a large fender washer and then cut off two sides and you have a shim perfect for the lid.

Brian

Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #28 (permalink)  
Old 09-27-2009, 06:59 AM
shine's Avatar
SPI Thug
 

Last journal entry: some progress
Last photo:
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: bluff dale texas
Posts: 2,732
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 212 Times in 169 Posts
the square shim will almost hide when installed and comes in different thickness. brian is right, most cars from the 60/70's are full of them. nothing wrong with using them, that's why they are made.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #29 (permalink)  
Old 09-27-2009, 07:03 AM
deadbodyman's Avatar
Registered User
 
Last wiki edit: Stripping paint Last photo:
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: augusta,ga.
Age: 54
Posts: 6,258
Wiki Edits: 11

Thanks: 28
Thanked 476 Times in 404 Posts
After three frame offs,your something more that a hobbist.Us pros will dissagree at times but it sure get you guys thinking...Dont it? did the deck fit good before the seal was installed?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #30 (permalink)  
Old 09-27-2009, 07:32 AM
deadbodyman's Avatar
Registered User
 
Last wiki edit: Stripping paint Last photo:
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: augusta,ga.
Age: 54
Posts: 6,258
Wiki Edits: 11

Thanks: 28
Thanked 476 Times in 404 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by MARTINSR
Deadman, listen, I don't know what to say. You are right, we all do things different. I personally would have made the mounting adjustable on that lid and no bending of hinges would have been needed. On the Camaro, it is supported ALL WRONG for cutting all that structure out it's no wonder there were panel fit problems! HOLY CRAP, you're lucky it didn't narrow the car by a foot the way it's supported!

Think about this, how could raising or lower the quarter have anything to do with the relation between the hinge and the lid on that car?

You are way over complicating this, the car is painted, shim the friggin lid and get on with life!

Building a car from scratch or modifying it is a whole different thing. Restoring a car from bare metal, it's a whole differnet story. Are you kidding me? If I were doing this car in pre-filler stage I would grab a hold of that lid and bend the %$#^ out of it and be done with it. But that can't be done here. If I were doing it pre-filler I would think nothing of grabbing my spoon and hammer and whacking it up or down along the edges to make the thing fit perfect, that can't be done here.

Brian
brian ,this might be a little off topic but still something might still be learned first where would you suggest supporting the car when replacing the frame rails? and second what you might not see is the frame connectors for drag racing made of 1/4" square stock that wernt removed untill everythig was done...without the frame rails or 1/4's there just a thin piece of steel at the top of the 1/4's that if someone leaned on would cause it to drop ..therefore the deck would still be at the right posistion but looking like it was too high ,the cure was to raise the drivers 1/4up 1/2"till every thing lined back up nothing at all to do with the hinges...last but not least every part of this car was painted off the car and assembled with no help it fits perfectly with better than factory gaps and not even a scratch....BUT it was put together and taken apart untill every part just fell on not one shim either ...now I realize I can be a little anal about a few things and shims just happens to be one of them the camero does have the factory shims in the tops and bottoms of the fenders but thats factory and like I said I've never seen a shim in a factory door or a deck lid and personaly find it totaly unnecesary to put them there so if you see a shim in a door or a deck its NOT factory. But I'm only talking as far back as 46 and I'm only talking about the doors and decks ,the front sheet metal on all most older cars are loaded with them but just the front. But I am curious as to where you would support the camero since its done now and assembly only took a day with no problems at all ,I'm always interested in making the work a little easier.LOL and thanks for the typing tip I'm getting much better(two fingers and a thumb)I know you work at a body shop but in the shop or in the office?

Last edited by deadbodyman; 09-27-2009 at 07:46 AM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

Recent Body - Exterior posts with photos

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name (usually not your first and last name), your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Problem with goodmark trunk?? 66sedanman Body - Exterior 4 07-07-2007 10:56 AM
Trunk lid for 1937 Pontiac BobsRods Body - Exterior 1 11-07-2006 08:53 PM
Trunk Lift Mrwood Body - Exterior 3 08-03-2006 11:13 AM
Trunk lid chrome 64 GTO reece6969 Body - Exterior 4 11-15-2002 06:37 AM
Trunk idea Wmarden Interior 13 11-07-2002 11:11 AM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:34 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
Copyright Hotrodders.com 1999 - 2012. All Rights Reserved.