Trying to adapt S/C 3800 parts to a 4.1/3.8?? - Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board
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Old 01-13-2011, 01:26 PM
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Trying to adapt S/C 3800 parts to a 4.1/3.8??

Hey, Trying to gather info and parts to see if one can 'adapt' parts from the later FI engines or even the Super Charged 3800 to the older 4.1 or 3.8's

At the local "U-pull it" places, I've seen many of them sitting and since the prices are pretty good, I thought it would be a good place to start.

I have a .040 4.1 block that is ready to build already and a virgin 3.8 that hasn't been hot tanked yet to see even if it's a good one or not..

Not looking to compete with big cube engines, just was looking for around 200hp+ motor linked to a 200r4 in a Little 89 Mighty Max long bed. The 200r4 is built already with the retro 'kit' from a 72 Monte that was sold.

I have a Crane cam in my shop (somewhere..) that I'll try and post the info from.
More interested in engine efficiency and torque than HP numbers.
I'd like to be around 20-25 cruising mpg..

What 'Helpful' insight do you guys have?? Like, can the FI intake be swapped around to what would end up being the 'front'??

I've even looked into using the whole S/C motor/harness mated to a 2.0 Bellhousing to a camaro 4.3 trans like the Kit car "Bunton V6", but that would mean going out and sourcing even more parts when I have all this just sitting.
(and NO, it's NOT the desired 4.1 block..)

E

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Old 01-13-2011, 04:16 PM
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The supercharged version was for front wheel drive and I do not think the boly bosses are present on them for a rear wheel drive car.
Also because of the supercharger the pistons are dished and forged, the rods are forges as is the crank, due to the extreme pressure the charger makes.The supercharged block is different. The only thing they share is the 3.8 liter displacement.
As for the 4.1 all is the same but it was a large version of the 3.8 so at least it has more cubes.It also had a quadrajet
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Old 01-13-2011, 05:09 PM
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The 3800 engine shares very few parts with the old 3.8-4.1 engines. Heads/block are different, so SC intake will not bolt up. The 3.8-3800 engine suffered thru many engineering/parts changes since the sixties. GM finally got it right in the late nineties. Then discontinued it..
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Old 01-13-2011, 05:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BOBCRMAN@aol.com
The 3800 engine shares very few parts with the old 3.8-4.1 engines. Heads/block are different, so SC intake will not bolt up. The 3.8-3800 engine suffered thru many engineering/parts changes since the sixties. GM finally got it right in the late nineties. Then discontinued it..
Yeah, they finally got it right, great engines...and just like oldsmobile and pontiac they stop making them, Go figure.And they thought saab and hummer were better.What the hell were they thinking?
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Old 01-13-2011, 07:54 PM
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Thanks much guys..

I've never built a Buick V6 and since there are just rows and rows of 3.8 and 3800's that it was worth the try.
It's a shame that NONE of the alloy heads or such can swap..
OH well.

HEY, wait a min.. What about the later 80's reagles and other G-bodied cars?
Anything from them? Engine wise that is.

E
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Old 01-14-2011, 08:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by latech
The supercharged version was for front wheel drive and I do not think the boly bosses are present on them for a rear wheel drive car.
Not true. The 3800 Series II motors were used in RWD applications in the F-body. No, not the SC version, but the blocks are the same. Of course, there were major redesign differences between the old 3.8/4.1 motors and the 3800 Series II motors, including a different bellhousing bolt pattern.
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Old 01-14-2011, 09:37 AM
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Exactly what Joe said. I would look for a donor from an F body, and get a donor FWD 3800, and swap parts from the S/C engine to the RWD one to build what you want. Sell the other two you have to fund the 3800 RWD S/C build.
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Old 01-14-2011, 09:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sbchevfreak
Exactly what Joe said. I would look for a donor from an F body, and get a donor FWD 3800, and swap parts from the S/C engine to the RWD one to build what you want. Sell the other two you have to fund the 3800 RWD S/C build.
Sorry, you missed my point. The RWD 3800 used in the F-body cars uses the same block as the FWD 3800. You need to use an S-10 700R4 with the GM metric bolt pattern. This bolts to a 3800SC. You don't need to swap any parts and you don't need to buy two motors. All you need is the 3800SC and the matching RWD trans. Lots of people have used 3800SC motors in RWD swaps. If you want a manual trans, you can use the bellhousing out of a 3800 F-body or an S-10 with the 2.8 V6. Either one bolts to a 3800SC.
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Old 01-14-2011, 09:55 AM
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re 3.8

Has anyone thought that one of the 3800 sc motors would be a lot of fun in an old s10 with the 5 speed i wonder if they would bolt up they are both 60 degree blocks would have to work on the intake and change the fuel pump to the high pressure version but i had thought about it a while back u could change rear gears and make it a great preforming and mileage getting little truck just a thought i had had a while back
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Old 01-14-2011, 10:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 89 Irocz
they are both 60 degree blocks
The 3800SC is a 90 degree block, just like every other Buick V6. The Series II motors DO use the 60 deg metric bolt pattern and will bolt to the S-10 trans, as I noted above. The biggest problem with RWD conversions of these motors is the throttle body at the back of the supercharger hits the firewall. Usually folks cut a hole in the firewall and rig some kind of cowl induction. Alternately you can modify the supercharger inlet with an elbow like the Mustang M112 units.
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Old 01-14-2011, 02:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joe_padavano
Sorry, you missed my point. The RWD 3800 used in the F-body cars uses the same block as the FWD 3800. You need to use an S-10 700R4 with the GM metric bolt pattern. This bolts to a 3800SC. You don't need to swap any parts and you don't need to buy two motors. All you need is the 3800SC and the matching RWD trans. Lots of people have used 3800SC motors in RWD swaps. If you want a manual trans, you can use the bellhousing out of a 3800 F-body or an S-10 with the 2.8 V6. Either one bolts to a 3800SC.

Thanks for the clarification, my bad.
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Old 01-15-2011, 07:05 AM
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OF course when "I" get back there, they'll all be gone.. That's how it usually goes.
I'm getting to the point of maybe, JUST maybe getting tired of rowing the gears and the auto looks better and better.

I did some pricing and it seems to be around 600-850 for a what they call complete motor. Harness/ECU is extra, and another 350-500 for a 'good' 700r4, which puts me way over for budget, even on the low side..

To get one from the pull-it places, I'd have to put my request in and just wait to see..
THEN, would have to install it. The welding/fab I can handle It's just the wiring it all up and hope that it runs well enough for my liking, which would take me well past the warranted time.

I know where 3 of them are but they're all fwd engines and have been sitting (covered at least) for over 5yrs.
I wonder if there are problems with the F-body manifolds cracking. I'd hate to find out that I'd need cu$tom headers that only come with a 400.00 coating on them..

I wish and dream a lot (which usually gets me into trouble) but maybe I should just stick to my first idea and just use this Buick engine.

Already have:
--rebuild 4.1-- 350-500.00. Pretty much done. Just need balancing, headwork and cam/lifters installed
rebuilt trans-- t350 or 200r4 (already paid 350-400 for rebuild years ago for each)
Converter already paid for the t350 (basically stock 85.00) 200r4 would run around 200-300.00. (well, depending on the cam/gearing, so could be cheaper)

This computer is acting funky.. I'll just post what I got.

E
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Old 01-15-2011, 09:49 AM
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I've done what Joe suggested. Turned a '98 3.8SC 90* and bolted the flywheel, clutch, bellhousing and T5 sourced from a '96 3.8NA Camaro. You can see a pic in my photo album. I used a 3.5" alum "U" to turn the TB back towards the front.
It's all apart for paint now, but it ran great and got 27 MPG.
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Old 01-15-2011, 02:17 PM
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I wish and dream a lot (which usually gets me into trouble) ............

Don't feel like the Lone Ranger.
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Old 01-15-2011, 06:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evolvo
I've done what Joe suggested. Turned a '98 3.8SC 90* and bolted the flywheel, clutch, bellhousing and T5 sourced from a '96 3.8NA Camaro. You can see a pic in my photo album. I used a 3.5" alum "U" to turn the TB back towards the front.
It's all apart for paint now, but it ran great and got 27 MPG.
I like it!
Nice
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