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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 03-29-2013, 07:05 AM
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Originally Posted by boggen View Post
never said i wanted to compete. rather would rather join one.
Still,question is if you would "join one" or with a over abundance of ego try to walk through the door on day one "try" to lead one.

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  #32 (permalink)  
Old 03-30-2013, 10:50 PM
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Originally Posted by NastyRat View Post
Pretty cool from scratch. But I would look at battery and solar recharge with individual electric drive wheels or electric motor to drive your pumps and keep Hydraulic drive axles. You could also install gas or diesel gen. to supplement recharge with out sun light.
it would be nice for solar. but i doubt solar could ever provide enough energy for a field tractor, more so when kicking up dust, that would cover any photo cells of any solar panels. there is also issue of a small time window farmers have to get into the fields to till/plow and then plant, and then same come harvest. this small time spand. ends up being one of those times they might work 16 hour plus days, and trying to work around weather to deal with the fields. that many hours without being able to do a fast recharge of batteries. need a power plant.

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Originally Posted by cobalt327 View Post
If I misread and the entire powerplant has to fit inside a 20" box (I thought the available length was more than 20"), good luck w/making any real HP/torque using commonly available engines/technology.
i am finding engines, granted still most in then experimental / testing stage, but came across a rare few going into mass production. not sure why others have not, or simply waiting for someone needing a demand for there given engine type.

you can find some longer recent threads of mine here
SSTT side ways snake train tractor (idea for a new tractor possibly) - The Combine Forum for some engines.

Quote:
Originally Posted by oldBodyman View Post
" the entire powerplant has to fit inside a 20" box"

boggen, do a goggle search and chase down "Tesla's bladeless turbine", it's the only option small enough to fit and produce the power you need. It can be run as internal combustion OR steam driven. It can be made small enough to fit at each wheel, plumbing them would your task but 100psi would not be a problem.

Good luck with it.
"bladeless" key term *doh* i have looked at those pictures before and like ok pass them up. thanks for pointing the turbine out better .

recently came across below 2 links.
Wave Rotor Projects
40 Years In The Desert: Revolutionary Aero Engine Concepts

now i am thinking about it, i came across one other link, that had multi inlets and outlets. it might have came from the first link of the 2 above.
and oh... the "wave engine" i think it is called or "shock wave engine?" aswell.

*rubs chin* i really can not pass on the idea. i mean it is a possibility. could make a varible size setup for the disc/rotors to have a variable width turbine per say. add some actuators to the nozzle to direct the combustion pressure better. the issue is the "combustion" wanting a higher compressed air. and fully burning up all the fuel. and keeping the fuel burning hot enough? to reduce air pollution. other issues is high RPM's, and needing gear of some sort to deal with any sort of air compressor.

on other hand. if going with pure electrical type of setup. i might be able to come right off one side or both sides of the disc/rotor sets... ya i would have a very high frequency but... that should not be that big of a problem. and then just go with electrical motor to some sort of air compressor setup, that would feed the combustion chamber.

i don't know. only way to feed this combustion chamber, would almost need to be a constant supply of air non stop. or i would start causing a speed up, speed down, speed up, speed down. of RPM's if trying to feed a pulsated air flow to the combustion chamber. pulsation coming from a regular piston air pump/compressor, to super charger, to turbo charger, to roots air compressor. all that air = no good.

well.... i suppose i could set a "surge tank" between combustion area and the tesla blade-less turbine. and then regulate how much pressure comes out of the surge tank and into the turbine. to have a more controlled setup. perhaps getting things to point of removing pulsation at the turbine itself.

but issue would be, feeding compressed air, into the combustion chamber. when the valve to surge tank is still open. and that valve would not close till both surge tank and combustion chamber went down to a low enough pressure. resulting in needing some sort of piston or positive displacement. more so a multi stage positive displacement pump. to put highly compressed air into the combustion chamber. by the time i do that. i might as well go with another engine type.
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Old 03-31-2013, 07:37 AM
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boggen, forget what you have just posted, you're over-complicating, Tesla had this all figured out in the 1920's. The problem then was the materials available were not up to snuff for internal combustion. Everything you posted has been solved, it's a self-contained unit.

Tesla's turbine is super efficient AND can run in both directions, as a power unit or a 'turbo charger', mounting 2 or 3 together will double or triple the HP output. Check the link below.

Have fun with it.


teslaturbine.htm
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old 03-31-2013, 08:49 PM
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Originally Posted by oldBodyman View Post
boggen, forget what you have just posted, you're over-complicating, Tesla had this all figured out in the 1920's. The problem then was the materials available were not up to snuff for internal combustion. Everything you posted has been solved, it's a self-contained unit.

Tesla's turbine is super efficient AND can run in both directions, as a power unit or a 'turbo charger', mounting 2 or 3 together will double or triple the HP output. Check the link below.

Have fun with it.


teslaturbine.htm
alright.....
"wave rotor", "disc turbine", "blade less turbine", "micro turbine" are what i have gotten hits with in regards to the "tesla blade less turbine".

3 theories i am seeing...
1st theroy, so many of the first set of discs, are acting like a "centerfug pump" and in that compressing and speeding up the air flow, up into a combustion chamber, as fuel/air explodes in combustion chamber, it is re-routed back down to the rest of the discs. to run a centrifuge pump backwards in a sense.

2nd air comes in at the center, and is compressed and speeds up as it goes out to the outside of the first set of blades. fuel is injected. and "eddy currents" are created. these eddy currents moving much more aburtly and in that finite layer of high pressures are achieved to exploded the air/fuel. and then this mixture is pushed back out the remaining discs. (centrifuge pump running backwards)

3rd pulse detenation, i hope i got correct term, somehow plays a roll in both 1st and 2nd doings above. some go with friction of hot gas (fuel/air explosion) being applied to discs, others... i did not go that far into. i also saw some sort of almost "single disc" setups.

==============
i am ready to pull my hair out, more "free energy" and folks making more out than what there blade less turbines are.... 99% is all steam or external shop size air compressor ran. trying to find a tesla blade less turbine, that is ran directly on combustion of fuels has gave a couple leads but, frankly i am a tad hesitant. mainly due to were combustion happens and how the combustion happens. and can the combustion be relied on and controlled to obtain lower and higher RPMs and same for torque.

in some hybrid car article. the telsa blade less turbine does have something going for it. and that is pure amount of weight over multi discs. and acting like a large flywheel. and allowing for internment combustion, and helps to reduce pulsation effects at the drive shaft.

it does have a bonous... air intake on one side (comes in at the center) and then on other side, exhaust gasses come out the center. reducing need like other engines to route things about.

CFM (cubic feet per minute) of air intake, and exhaust. unloaded and fully loaded, has me concerned.
while i have read statements of "self cooling" and then on some pages needing cooling of combustion area (water jacket) for water/antifreeze mix. the "self cooling" with air alone, puts me on edge as in, massive amounts of air flow goes through the engine.

low compression ratio, also has me concerned. granted i am no engine expert and dealing with air pollution / emissions. statements that i do read, almost makes it sound like, they are using massive amounts of air flowing through the engine. to help reduce PPM (parts per million) of some air pollution. but engine is still producing same or higher amounts of air pollution, per 1 minute of time. maybe i am mis-reading.

links....
Wave Rotor Projects
Additional Links
M. Razi Nalim (personal note, need to contact)
Daniel E. Paxson - Controls and Dynamics Branch Personnel (personal note, need to contact)


Control System Development LLC (NDA (non-disclosure agreement) required to see anything)

TESLA ENGINE BUILDERS ASSOCIATION (i am sick and tired of this website) makes more of turbine than anything, but not seeing much of anything beyond something hooked up to an "shop air compressor) everything else, is someone else's notation. and acting like it is there's, at least that is what i am getting from the website.
http://www.teslaengine.org/images/pump.jpg
http://www.teslaengine.org/images/teba23p4.pdf (volvo 850 concept vehicle "ECC")
Completed Pulse Combustion Turbine by member Luis Mendonca, Phoenix Turbine Builders Club, low cost Tesla turbines (personal note, need to contact)

http://www.capstoneturbine.com/_docs...ENGLISH_LR.pdf (personal note, need to contact)
looks like an actual re-world production of a small scale turbines. that might work out nicely, but all i see are "cabinet" setups. vs just the engine.

(gearturbine or greenturbine (no space)) coming up empty on websites besides notes to it.

ttengines - clean air turbine technology

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/20...298575202.html

PowerPedia:Gas turbine - PESWiki
Directory:Tesla Turbines - PESWiki
Directory:Tesla Turbines - PESWiki
Tesla turbine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

===========
at odds with myself. i like it, but, my mind is telling me to walk away from the tesla blade less turbine. or like doings. the "power curve" and overall range of the "power curve" at low and high loads placed on engine. it is not like you can go and "change diameter" of the discs or change spacing of the discs. and you will be placed into this "power curve" that is efficient in one range, but suck every were else.

the ttengines - clean air turbine technology might be worth it. and be able to put clutches between "power units". to turn/on off individual as needed. to change the overall power curve. and try to narrow the point were things are the most efficient, across a wider range of power curves. but even the TT engines compared to others are either making everything single piece or multi piece. and i just do not see it happening for me. do not get me wrong it most likely works, and would work well in certain given situations. but i am needing a wide range power curve and meeting the higher efficiency across that entire range.

man, and then i flip flop back. and then flip flop right on back against blade less turbines... its that whole variable adjustments. and adding extra pieces and splitting things up to obtain that variable adjustments. to obtain that higher efficiency across a wide range power curve.

hhmmssss i keep wanting to apply say a centrifuge water pump or air pump (power curve) to the blade less turbine / disc turbine. and i guess i need to get over that, i am not using a set HP electrical motor, but a variable speed electrical motor. or rather in this case it would be a variable generator for the SSTT (sideways snake train tractor). i am still stuck with disc diameter, and spacing, and if there are any fins between the discs. "i can not change that" once set, i am stuck with that. so there is going to be sudden jumps between throttling up the engine per say to get more RPM's and torque. as air is pulled into more discs and exhaust goes over more discs. there will be a limit of how many discs can be used. to evenly disperse incoming air and dealing with exhaust. this is going to relate to diameter of discs, space between discs, and any fins. and right there your setting yourself into a "power curve" and most likely will need to keep at a certain RPM's / Torque. to obtain efficiency. which will most likely mean speeding up and speeding down the overall engine. and using capacitors / batteries. to offset the pulsation. also issues of sudden need for more electricity and then suddenly not needing any energy, there would most likely be a "time lag" that would need to be dealt with, with capacitors / batteries.

=======
this is not a electrical car and trying to build for range. but for traction and power, and using up a lot of power quickly and continuously. i want something that does not rely on need for a bigger capacitor banks / battery banks for range extension. but rather, quick response in production of electricity, to reduce size of stored energy. i want lots of weight low to the ground. even if it is not suspend weight (weight is below suspension). so while in field, i am pulling parallel to the field as much as possible. ((refering to wheel hub motors and the weight)) also weight low to ground, to help reduce "tipping over".

========
*rubs chin* it is that whole balancing of electricity being generated, and the blade less turbine. and balancing things out in such a way. that fuel efficiency stays up there. but still staying within the air pollution laws/regs. and dealing with the power curve of the engine, and the coils and permanent magnets of the generator. those power curves for both.... and dealing with storage capacity in capacitors and battery banks. to bridge gap between having to much electric produced and not enough energy produced.

========
blade less turbines are like (right here as i hold my head at eye level), and then i look at the "free piston linear generator engines", and they are here (as i raise my hand just barely above my head, just touching my hair). it is that variable (extra) that the free pistons give over the blade less. that extra variable of be able to adjust things on the fly and on demand. is what most likely going to work out better for the SSTT (sideways snake train tractor). both technologies are there, but that much variable adjustment. is what going to matter long term. and can be taken advantage of both now and later in the future.

a free piston engine, i can take say this 5 foot long cylinder shape that is say 8 inches in diameter. (honestly have no clue on dimensions) and plug it in. attach a few bolts or pins. and i just got that much more power. the free piston turns into a "power cell" or a battery per say. and ya, eventually it would be that easy and a long term goal to reach. but until then. the benefits of free piston, has me.

do not get me wrong, i am still flip flopping back and forth trying to compare free piston to the blade less, to what my mind is able to comprehend. but to push me over to the blade less. there needs to be something more. that i am most likely not understanding.

*open* have at it, even if it means ripping me a new one.

time to work on paper work.

Last edited by boggen; 03-31-2013 at 08:52 PM. Reason: adding a link i forgot
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