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Old 07-05-2013, 03:39 PM
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Tuning for Nitrous?

I was wanting to hear from everyone that does use no2, How do i go about tuning for it? I have herd several times that timing needs to be backed out about 1-2 deg for every 50hp you go up. So if im running a 100 shot pill then i need to back out 2-4 deg of timing. Does this sound correct? When Do i need to step up on primary jet sizes on the carb? Not looking to go over a 100hp jet to keep it from blowing its self all over the track.

I ordered a Nitrous Express ML1000 kit from NX directly today. They threw in a 50 and 75 hp jets with the deal. Supper nice guys to talk to. Here is a link to the setup,

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/nex-ml1000

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Old 07-05-2013, 04:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slammedsi View Post
I was wanting to hear from everyone that does use no2, How do i go about tuning for it? I have herd several times that timing needs to be backed out about 1-2 deg for every 50hp you go up. So if im running a 100 shot pill then i need to back out 2-4 deg of timing. Does this sound correct? When Do i need to step up on primary jet sizes on the carb? Not looking to go over a 100hp jet to keep it from blowing its self all over the track.

I ordered a Nitrous Express ML1000 kit from NX directly today. They threw in a 50 and 75 hp jets with the deal. Supper nice guys to talk to. Here is a link to the setup,

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/nex-ml1000
I think I'd be on the phone with the tech guys at Nitrous Express, suckin' all the information out of their brains. I would think that nobody knows how to set up the product better than the guys who make it. Did you leave a little extra ring end gap when you put the motor together? You don't want the ends buttin' together and removing the piston crown.
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Old 07-05-2013, 05:34 PM
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what tech said about rings!
the carb does not need to be rejetted, if you are using a plate with both nitrous oxide and fuel solenoids?
some systems are dry,but they are usually used in fuel injection systems and cheater systems.
Make sure your fuel delivery system works perfectly.Solder all wire connections.Its ok if the system does not inject the NO 2,but if it fails on the fuel side,you are in big trouble
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Old 07-05-2013, 06:45 PM
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Mostly what I used to see at the drag strip was a dedicated fuel supply, like maybe with a one gallon cell mounted in the engine bay somewhere, using a dedicated electric pump.
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Old 07-05-2013, 07:32 PM
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Originally Posted by techinspector1 View Post
I think I'd be on the phone with the tech guys at Nitrous Express, suckin' all the information out of their brains. I would think that nobody knows how to set up the product better than the guys who make it. Did you leave a little extra ring end gap when you put the motor together? You don't want the ends buttin' together and removing the piston crown.
I have spoken to them on the phone, But it was just touching bases on tuning and who does it. The good thing about Nitrous Express is they are very close to me, About 50 miles. They do have and in house guy that will tune the setups if need be. So I will be utilizing that option. I was just wanted to know how the hotrodders.com guys do it.

Quote:
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what tech said about rings!
the carb does not need to be rejetted, if you are using a plate with both nitrous oxide and fuel solenoids?
some systems are dry,but they are usually used in fuel injection systems and cheater systems.
Make sure your fuel delivery system works perfectly.Solder all wire connections.Its ok if the system does not inject the NO 2,but if it fails on the fuel side,you are in big trouble
The fuel system consists of a Holly Blue pump with a RCI 11 Gallon fuel cell, 8AN feed line to the regulator and carb, and a 6AN return line.
The kit is a wet kit utilizing one no2 solenoid and one fuel solenoid. I'm running hyperutetic aluminum piston, and to be honest i don't know what the ring gap was set at as i didn't build the bottom end. I have read in car craft magazine that running anything more then a 150 jet is asking for trouble with the same type of piston I have now. With this information i don't plan on going anything over a 100HP jet. I did speak to Edelbrock before TQing the heads down and they recommended to but the final tq to 80 foot lbs instead of 65 foot lbs like there instructions recommenced. They claim its needed to keep the heads securely planted to the block. When I put this motor together i went ahead and used a ARP bolt kit, knowing i wanted to throw a little gas to it.
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Old 07-05-2013, 08:50 PM
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You will probably be alright for a while with the hyper pistons and only a 100 shot, but eventually, you will break it. For sure don't even try the 150 shot. Also, you're going to need a lot more stuff than what's listed in the kit. Since you're close to them, let them install the kit with everything you need....but be prepared to spend considerable more than the advertised kit. Good luck, Bill.

Last edited by ssimpala; 07-05-2013 at 09:06 PM.
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Old 07-06-2013, 06:28 AM
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Ya what he said
I actually sold my last vehicle because it had hyper pistons and I found out I couldnt hit it with a big shot because of those pistons That doesnt mean you can't use nitrous, it just means you shouldnt hit it hard and you shouldnt hit it often if you want the motor to stay together.

I've used nitrous on many of my vehicles and motorcycles over a 30 yr period and have never lost a motor to it, the trick is to make sure you don't over do it,
your system is working properly, and your tuned for it (if need be).
I say "if" because depending on the sytem some will allow you to hit it with as much as 75 HP without having to pull timing or alter the tune, (Zex for an example). But the Zex kit also has features built in to the control box that assure the system can not possibaly go lean.

Bottom line I would start with a 50 shot and buy some larger fuel jets to assure your A/F is fat. You should not have to retard the timing at 50 but for safety purpose I would retard it 2 degrees to make sure there's no detination and only then would I consider 75 HP (or more).

I took a full second off my 1320 ET on a 5000 lb Lightning truck with Zex Systems (had them on 2 of my L's). But when I was spraying more than 50 or 75 HP I used much better kits with lots of safety devices built in. For an example on my 00 Lightning I used the top of the line NX kit with a digital controller, pressure cut off switch, and it had a dedicated Nitrous Tune (lower timing, timing locked, different shift points, and of course I was using (2) 140 pumps instead of the factory 110 pumps). I ran a 9.74 @ 138.76 MPH with a 100 shot and later a 9.9 at 136 MPH with more weight on the truck.

But I still did not use the 100 shot the whole run, I had the controller set up like this... I'm going to explain the entire run based on 10.0 from start to finish using 100 HP jets

When you floored it the controller was set to have a 1/2 sec delay (no n20)
It was then set to build from 50% to 100% in 1-1/2 seconds
(so i wasnt at 100% / 100 HP until 2 secs after launch)
Then i had a stage two kick in 6 seconds after initial WOT
But instead of adding HP I actually pulled hp and backed it down to 40% / 40HP
So for the next 4 seconds and the last 4 seconds of the run I was only at 40HP

So...
1/2 sec of nothing
1-1/2 secs to build from 50% to 100%
4 secs at 100%
4 secs at 40%

Using digital controllers and having fuel pressure cut off switches (to kill the n20 if fuel pressure drops) can save your *** BIG TIME
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Old 07-06-2013, 07:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ssimpala View Post
You will probably be alright for a while with the hyper pistons and only a 100 shot, but eventually, you will break it. For sure don't even try the 150 shot. Also, you're going to need a lot more stuff than what's listed in the kit. Since you're close to them, let them install the kit with everything you need....but be prepared to spend considerable more than the advertised kit. Good luck, Bill.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ProStreetRob View Post
Ya what he said
I actually sold my last vehicle because it had hyper pistons and I found out I couldnt hit it with a big shot because of those pistons That doesnt mean you can't use nitrous, it just means you shouldnt hit it hard and you shouldnt hit it often if you want the motor to stay together.

I've used nitrous on many of my vehicles and motorcycles over a 30 yr period and have never lost a motor to it, the trick is to make sure you don't over do it,
your system is working properly, and your tuned for it (if need be).
I say "if" because depending on the sytem some will allow you to hit it with as much as 75 HP without having to pull timing or alter the tune, (Zex for an example). But the Zex kit also has features built in to the control box that assure the system can not possibaly go lean.

Bottom line I would start with a 50 shot and buy some larger fuel jets to assure your A/F is fat. You should not have to retard the timing at 50 but for safety purpose I would retard it 2 degrees to make sure there's no detination and only then would I consider 75 HP (or more).

I took a full second off my 1320 ET on a 5000 lb Lightning truck with Zex Systems (had them on 2 of my L's). But when I was spraying more than 50 or 75 HP I used much better kits with lots of safety devices built in. For an example on my 00 Lightning I used the top of the line NX kit with a digital controller, pressure cut off switch, and it had a dedicated Nitrous Tune (lower timing, timing locked, different shift points, and of course I was using (2) 140 pumps instead of the factory 110 pumps). I ran a 9.74 @ 138.76 MPH with a 100 shot and later a 9.9 at 136 MPH with more weight on the truck.

But I still did not use the 100 shot the whole run, I had the controller set up like this... I'm going to explain the entire run based on 10.0 from start to finish using 100 HP jets

When you floored it the controller was set to have a 1/2 sec delay (no n20)
It was then set to build from 50% to 100% in 1-1/2 seconds
(so i wasnt at 100% / 100 HP until 2 secs after launch)
Then i had a stage two kick in 6 seconds after initial WOT
But instead of adding HP I actually pulled hp and backed it down to 40% / 40HP
So for the next 4 seconds and the last 4 seconds of the run I was only at 40HP

So...
1/2 sec of nothing
1-1/2 secs to build from 50% to 100%
4 secs at 100%
4 secs at 40%

Using digital controllers and having fuel pressure cut off switches (to kill the n20 if fuel pressure drops) can save your *** BIG TIME
Thanks guys. I have installed several kits in the past. I will prolly install the kit myself then have them tune it for me. I have a good friend that runs a 150hp jet on his sbc for many years eith out problems, but he has many hrs od tuning time invested. Im only looking to break into the 12.99 or faster range. Which should be doable on motor alone I hope. The truck is heavy tho, about 4700lbs.
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Old 07-06-2013, 07:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ssimpala View Post
You will probably be alright for a while with the hyper pistons and only a 100 shot, but eventually, you will break it. For sure don't even try the 150 shot. Also, you're going to need a lot more stuff than what's listed in the kit. Since you're close to them, let them install the kit with everything you need....but be prepared to spend considerable more than the advertised kit. Good luck, Bill.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ProStreetRob View Post
Ya what he said
I actually sold my last vehicle because it had hyper pistons and I found out I couldnt hit it with a big shot because of those pistons That doesnt mean you can't use nitrous, it just means you shouldnt hit it hard and you shouldnt hit it often if you want the motor to stay together.

I've used nitrous on many of my vehicles and motorcycles over a 30 yr period and have never lost a motor to it, the trick is to make sure you don't over do it,
your system is working properly, and your tuned for it (if need be).
I say "if" because depending on the sytem some will allow you to hit it with as much as 75 HP without having to pull timing or alter the tune, (Zex for an example). But the Zex kit also has features built in to the control box that assure the system can not possibaly go lean.

Bottom line I would start with a 50 shot and buy some larger fuel jets to assure your A/F is fat. You should not have to retard the timing at 50 but for safety purpose I would retard it 2 degrees to make sure there's no detination and only then would I consider 75 HP (or more).

I took a full second off my 1320 ET on a 5000 lb Lightning truck with Zex Systems (had them on 2 of my L's). But when I was spraying more than 50 or 75 HP I used much better kits with lots of safety devices built in. For an example on my 00 Lightning I used the top of the line NX kit with a digital controller, pressure cut off switch, and it had a dedicated Nitrous Tune (lower timing, timing locked, different shift points, and of course I was using (2) 140 pumps instead of the factory 110 pumps). I ran a 9.74 @ 138.76 MPH with a 100 shot and later a 9.9 at 136 MPH with more weight on the truck.

But I still did not use the 100 shot the whole run, I had the controller set up like this... I'm going to explain the entire run based on 10.0 from start to finish using 100 HP jets

When you floored it the controller was set to have a 1/2 sec delay (no n20)
It was then set to build from 50% to 100% in 1-1/2 seconds
(so i wasnt at 100% / 100 HP until 2 secs after launch)
Then i had a stage two kick in 6 seconds after initial WOT
But instead of adding HP I actually pulled hp and backed it down to 40% / 40HP
So for the next 4 seconds and the last 4 seconds of the run I was only at 40HP

So...
1/2 sec of nothing
1-1/2 secs to build from 50% to 100%
4 secs at 100%
4 secs at 40%

Using digital controllers and having fuel pressure cut off switches (to kill the n20 if fuel pressure drops) can save your *** BIG TIME
Thanks guys. I have installed several kits in the past. I will prolly install the kit myself then have them tune it for me. I have a good friend that runs a 150hp jet on his sbc for many years eith out problems, but he has many hrs od tuning time invested. Im only looking to break into the 12.99 or faster range. Which should be doable on motor alone I hope. The truck is heavy tho, about 4700lbs.
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Old 07-06-2013, 08:34 AM
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4700 pounds will need some serious power to run 12s. aim for around 500
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Old 07-06-2013, 08:46 AM
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Quote:
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4700 pounds will need some serious power to run 12s. aim for around 500
That's my goal anyways. I don't have much for suspencion setup. Just traction bars, locker and a set of mickey thompson drag radials.

I did locate some information on nitrous express's website saying 2 of timing needs to be backed out every 50hp that you go up.
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Old 07-06-2013, 09:29 PM
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4700 pounds will need some serious power to run 12s. aim for around 500
Man I was way off. Using this Calculator, ET-MPH-HP Calculator and entering 4700lbs at 370whp motor. It came back with a 13.50 at about 99mph.

Now if i was to run say a 100hp jet and got the full 100hp from that, 475ish whp makes for a predicted 1/4 mile of 12.50s at 107mph. I think i have a long way to go still to make my goal. I'm not 100% certain on the weight of the truck too.
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Old 07-06-2013, 09:36 PM
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weigh the truck ,,,then you need 2 big events to happen,traction and a good launch from gearing and converter.
wrong gearing and you will be in the 14s
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Old 07-07-2013, 11:12 AM
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weigh the truck ,,,then you need 2 big events to happen,traction and a good launch from gearing and converter.
wrong gearing and you will be in the 14s
Yea. Havent thought much about the gearing. Running a 3.73 and 2600-2800 rpm stall.
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Old 07-07-2013, 02:39 PM
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drag racing and heavy equipment is not a very good combination.When you make power AND get traction ,,,things start to break
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