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Old 02-20-2006, 10:31 PM
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Tunnel ram info?

Hi I am a new member so give me a little bit of a break lol. I had a 1970 Camaro with a fully roller 355. It has 230cc intake runner Dart heads
230cc intake runner Dart intake to match heads
698 lift isky roller cam and roller lifters
A very strong bottom end ( engine builder guarenteed to 9000)
H beem Corello rods
15.1 compression with Ross forged pistons and 64cc heads
Heads are 2.08 and 1.6 valves
Roller rockers 1.5 ratio
This car weighed 3500 with me race ready.
It ran a best of 13.20 at 110mph.
This is a very stout 355 and run like a r@ped ape.
TH350 with a 4200 TCI stall converter.
But I sold the 1970 and now have a 1972 Camaro and I want to go faster lol. I am using the same motor but I baught a Edlebrock Pro Ram 2 tunnel ram intake, two matched 660 doubble pumper Holleys, and a Muncie trans so I can get rid of the auto. I think the four speed will be a lot more fun to drive. lol My question is how well do you think the tunnel ram and two fours will work on my motor? I will be shifting at 8600 rpm which is the same shift point as before with the auto and single 850cfm four. Am I going to see a horsepower increase? What whould be a good starting point for the jetting and how to set up this two carb setup? Thanks for the help in advance.

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Old 02-20-2006, 11:05 PM
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Well a tunnel ram matches your combo fairly well. I am a little confued why you were only running 13's with that much compression, cam, heads, stall. Seems like you have something that doesn't match well. What kind of gear ratio were you running and what is the gear ratio for the new car. This is definetly a high RPM engine.

What were the incrementals on your 13.20 @ 110 MPH pass. (60ft, 330ft, 1/8th miles, etc...).

I would think you are leaving a lot on the table. I think traction may have been part of the problem. There is no reason an engine of that caliber shouldn't run in the low 11's maybe even in the 10's depending on the weight of the car. What is the altitude there? Not familiar with the city/town you listed.

Royce
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Old 02-21-2006, 07:26 AM
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Something doesn't compute right on that ET & MPH. Normally 110 MPH in the 1/4 is going to give you an ET in the high 11's about 11.85. A 13.20 ET is usually going to be in the mid 90's probably 95 MPH. You must have had serious traction issues.
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Old 02-21-2006, 08:26 AM
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I was only getting a 2.0 to 1.9 60ft and I think that the converter I was using was not stalling right. The car is a dog under 4000 rpm and I think that converter was only stalling at 2000. I dont know last year was my first year drag racing. So I realy dont know to much about how to set up my car. My rear gear was a 2.73. Hope you guys can help me. What about the tunnel ram? Thanks
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Old 02-21-2006, 08:36 AM
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The low gear ratio, and bad converter would be the problem. A Tunnel ram will give you more top end power, and as long as you're not affraid to turn it the RPM it should be fine. You're going to need a lot of gear in the rear end to make it work properly. My little motor car used to run with a 5.86 in the rear in that kind of RPM range.
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Old 02-21-2006, 09:09 AM
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Don,
You had/have a serious mis-match with that gear ratio and that engine. For you to get the most out of that engine you need to turn some RPM, the size of those heads, the small cubic inch engine, and that large cam, are not going to make any power/torque down low. Depedning on your tire size you are going to need 4.56 gears at a minimum, and with an auto you would want a stall in the 5000-5500 range. I know you mentioned going to a stick car, but I don't think that tranny will live long with 6000RPM clutch drops in a car that hooks. With your engine you will need to leave about that RPM.

Your old converter might have been fine, but you didn't have enough torque to make it stall higher. You have to order a converter that is designed to work in your combination. A converter might stall to 5000 behind a healthy big block and that same converter might only stall to 2500 behind a low torque small block.

I know you only asked for tunnel ram advice, but everything has to work together if you want the car to work. Yes, your engine combo would work with a tunnel ram, but if everything isn't set up right you will be in the same boat if not worse off.

Royce
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Old 02-21-2006, 07:18 PM
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I thank you guys so much for all your help, Do I need to get a different cam? I would love to run low 11s that would be a dream come true lol. Maybe I can with your help I had a ruff time last year. I kept looking for reasons why my car wont go faster. I know this engine has a lot more in it than what it has shown. Heck it cost me 27,000 to have it built. I love the idea and dream about lifting the fron tires off the ground and heading down the track to a 11. sec. pass. I have a grand national full floater 9" ford with gun drilled 31 spline axles. This rear has a 4.56 gear in it and I just had the mounts put on it and it will be going in the car also, I am sorry I forgot to mention this. It has disk brakes and that will give me disk all the way around so I can slow down after my 11. sec. pass. I also had to have a custom drive shaft made to fit this combo. What kind of clutch should I use? I have to start with this trans but what kind of trans should I get? Again I thank you for your help and look forward to the info and going faster. I will post a photo of my new 1972 when I can take one.
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Old 02-21-2006, 10:05 PM
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I wouldn't change the cam, it fits your combination fine. You have a high RPM engine, you have to spin it to go fast. The 4.56's will help a lot. If this is a drag only car, you will be more consistant with an auto (probably not what you want to hear). As far as clutches go there are several good ones out there, Ram, Zoom, Hays, Centerforce, etc... You will need a pretty stout pressure plate, to hold the 6000RPM launches. Maybe some of the other guys that drag race manual trans cars can offer some specific help to you (my choice is a manual valve body automatic).

You have the parts to go fast so, don't get discouraged. You just have to guve that combo some gear and then your next challenge will be traction. Making power is fairly easy, getting the power to the ground can be challenging.

Royce
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Old 02-22-2006, 07:58 AM
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It's been so long since I've used anything with a single disc clutch, but for a standard style 4spd I'd go with a Ram Clutch. They are really good guys over there, and will be able to point you in the right direction.
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Old 02-22-2006, 08:08 AM
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After messing with the auto last year I am done. Besides I want to drive it around town and if I have to use a 5500 stall that aint going to be to street frendly will it? I just spent 500.00 to get this muncie and am looking forward to using it lol. Again I thank you for all your help! I am glad to hear that you think the tunnel ram is going to be ok. Do you think there will be a noticable difference in power? How is going from the set up on my 70 and now useing the set up on the 72 going to effect my ET? I ordered a set of subframe connecters this morning. What kind of traction devices should I use. Like a set of comp. eng. traction bars with the J bolts work? I am going to use a set of Mickey DOT Radials on the rear. I know I started this thread with tunnel ram info but now 7d has opened my eyes and I now know I need a lot more help! So could you guys please help me please please with cherrys on top? LOL Thanks.
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Old 02-22-2006, 08:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dons72camaro
After messing with the auto last year I am done. Besides I want to drive it around town and if I have to use a 5500 stall that aint going to be to street frendly will it? I just spent 500.00 to get this muncie and am looking forward to using it lol. Again I thank you for all your help! I am glad to hear that you think the tunnel ram is going to be ok. Do you think there will be a noticable difference in power? How is going from the set up on my 70 and now useing the set up on the 72 going to effect my ET? I ordered a set of subframe connecters this morning. What kind of traction devices should I use. Like a set of comp. eng. traction bars with the J bolts work? I am going to use a set of Mickey DOT Radials on the rear. I know I started this thread with tunnel ram info but now 7d has opened my eyes and I now know I need a lot more help! So could you guys please help me please please with cherrys on top? LOL Thanks.

For this kind of power you're going to need more than a set of traction bars to get it to hook up safely. You're probably going to have at least go with a floater setup and ladder bars. Besides having to modify the wheel wells to get some tires on that thing. It sounds like you have a lot more engine than car at the moment. Not very safe.
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Old 02-22-2006, 09:07 AM
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I think you will be able to get the car to hook with a set of Cal-Trac bars. www.calvertracing.com There are cars running in the 8's with those. Sub frame connectors are a must and I hope you bought weld in connectors. If you bought bolt in make sure you still weld them. Shocks and springs are VERY important to get a car to work right. You will also need a roll bar, roll bars are not only good for safety, but they help stiffen up the chassis. You need a roll bar in a unibody car (Camaro). With 15:1 compression how musch street driving can you really do? That 5500 stall would be just as at home on the street as your engine is. Don't forget just because a converter is rated as 5500, that doesn't mean your car won't move until 5500, it depends how much torque you put to it (is you are light on the gas it won't stall to 5500). I understand you have money invested in your Muncie and want to give it a shot, I don't have a problem with that. If you want to bracket race that manual tranny will cost you, if you are just out to have fun go for it. I still don't think it's going to live very long.

MT Drag radials work much better on an automatic car, you might want to go with E.T. Streets or Hoosier Quick Time Pros, they are more stick shift friendly. It's the little details like that which will make your car run like it should.

Is your battery already in the trunk? Do you have sway bars on the car still? Get the car as light as you can, that will help the tranny live and help the car go faster. Lighter wheels would be a good idea too. Right now it seems you have a basically stock Camaro with a drag race engine, until you bring the car up to the level of the engine, you will not see the performance you should. Weight transfer and traction are the key to drag racing.

Royce
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Old 02-22-2006, 10:47 AM
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Just carry you a bushel basket to pick up the parts when you scatter the 4 speed, If your car starts hookin' I think parts will start flyin.
It's hard to drive a race motor on the street(feasibly), you need to go with strip only or tame it down some for the street. But if you got mega bucks have at it.
And I'm not trying to be a smart *****, I banged cogs on a 4-speed for many years (The Sixties & 70's).
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Old 02-23-2006, 12:26 AM
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Yes sir I still have sway bars, Do I need bigger ones? What shocks should I use and springs for that matter. I have a 5000 stall that I baught last year and never used because I thought it was not going to move till 5000? I still have my th350 but the bell housing part of the case is cracked all the way around. It has a manule valve body and a stage 3 shift kit but it never did shift hard enough to cherp the tires, not to mention now it has a broke case and I cant afford to get another case. If I could get a race th350 in trade for my muncie I might do seens how I have a new converter. I am not totaly against using an auto I just have a lot in the muncie and dont know what to do now? How much of a cage do I need? No my battery is in front? Why? I also was wondering about using inner fender wells? Loose them for weight reasons or keep them? I just want to cruze to sonic and around my local hangouts. Never will see an interstate highway. Just want to show off like all hod rod guys do and be proud of what I have. Thanks so very much for taking your time with me and helping me learn about drag racing!!! I am so glad I found this forum
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Old 02-23-2006, 08:56 AM
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Certainly would trade the stick for the auto...hands down. If you have that much motor a cage would make the car more solid and help transfer the weight. If you plan to race this car, you would probably have to install a cage anyway. As far as the battery and fenders....you could loose the inner fenders and move the battery to the back to where you need it, every little bit helps in obtaining traction. I'm still not convinced this cars setup is what you want...you've got way to much motor for a street car, that's an all out race motor, and race motors don't like to idle around much. As far as the springs and shocks, you're not going to hook with a street set up. And a drag race type suspension, which will help you hook, is dangerous on the street. You need to decide if you're just going cruise to Sonic or race it. Don't get me wrong...their are street/strip cars that are very "street-able", but not with your setup...
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