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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 02-17-2007, 08:21 PM
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Tunnel Ram information

There have been several threads the last couple weeks about tunnel rams. A seemingly large contingent feels that tunnel ram intakes are designed for, and are only good for, high rpm operation, since the runners are very short and pointed straight into the head ports.

There are a lot of tales and false conceptions about tunnel rams. I think most come from the fact that many users suffer from mismatched combinations and improper tuning. People watched their performance and made conclusions based on what they saw.

Many tests have shown that properly done, a tunnel ram makes more power across the board than any other carb set up.

I am an analytical and pragmatic engineer. I need hard evidence to convince me of a certain position.

Today I got a SBC Edelbrock Performer RPM intake and a Weiand Tunnel Ram side by side.

The runner length is measured in the centerline of the intake runner. Not the short turn or the long turn side. Measuring as closely as reasonably possible I made the following observations.

The dual-plane SBC Edelbrock Performer RPM runners measure between 5 and 6 inches from plenum to head. The lower plane has a vertically deeper plenum and therefore a larger plenum volume.

The Weiand Tunnel Ram measures 5+ inches from head to plenum.

I do not have a Victor series intake nor any other single plane single 4 bbl. intake for comparison.

I measured a big block Mopar Weiand tunnel ram that measured about 7 3/4 inches from the head to the plenum. Not much shorter than flat manifolds, but I have none to measure.

Tunnel rams are NOT severely shorter than normal intakes and the performance is enhanced by better fuel distribution and the fact that the fuel droplets are not slung out going around bends and do not separate from the air and puddle on the sides of the head ports.

There are old technology staggered-dual-plane single 4 bbl. intakes with the center 4 runners about 3 inches long, F4B, etc. Look at a 3x2 set up, or dual quads on a flat intake.

Check for yourself. So don't fall for the BS floating around the hotrod world.

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Old 02-17-2007, 08:37 PM
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I'd be interested in knowing the cc's of volume in each manifold that any one piston might see.
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Old 02-17-2007, 09:09 PM
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Jesus H Christ, you just can`t give nothing a rest can you? you just won`t be satisfied until you make everyone of us look like a fool. Your making this site less and less enjoyable because you always have to be right.
Well excuse me for living but some of us have facts to go by and not all of us have the time, tools or money to get things in precise tune. Most guys on this site that want a tunnel ram only want it for the cool factor just because it looks tough, yet, just about all of them have said they only wanted it for the looks. You also forgot to consider, dual plane intakes have a longer runner because the plenum is divided, if these intakes are such trash then why are they so popular and widely used? Why don`t you go argue with the guys who make intakes and tell them your "facts"? go tell them that tunnel rams are for all RPM`s and not just high, after all there the guys who made them and rated them but I`d say they must be wrong according to you almighty god.
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Old 02-17-2007, 10:08 PM
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One of the problems with a tunnel ram is the fact that the plenums are way up in the cool, cool air. Most guys are used to a manifold that warms up relatively quickly. Tunnel rams runners and plenums eventually warm up, but take a good bit longer. Tuners try to set up the idle etc with the plenums cold so it won't spit back. Then, once the plenums do heat up and help vapourize the fuel, the thing is too rich and tends to load up. hard to find a happy medium. This is where electric chokes really would help. Maybe even electric or water heated plenum tracks for street use. Hey Xntrik, instead of pissing everyone off y not invent such a thing a make your contribution to the hot rodding world in a real and usefull manor.
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Old 02-17-2007, 11:29 PM
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Grandpa always said,
"Never argue with an idiot, someone listening might not be able to tell the difference".

If you think I am such an idiot,
why do you keep responding and sending me PMs about your car?

Most people come to this site for help and to learn. You chose to click on this thread to argue and show your attacking attitude.

As for making you look like a fool.........
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Old 02-18-2007, 12:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DoubleVision
Most guys on this site that want a tunnel ram only want it for the cool factor just because it looks tough, yet, just about all of them have said they only wanted it for the looks.
Doesn't apply to ME.
I ran a tunnel ram 2x4bbl on my work truck for performance and drivability. It was UNDER the hood, nothing came through, and therefore nobody knew it was there.

I had a mild cam, stock converter, and TONS of low end torque.




I just have to ask- have you ever actually ran a tunnel ram on the street before?
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Old 02-18-2007, 01:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazy Mopar Guy
Doesn't apply to ME.
I ran a tunnel ram 2x4bbl on my work truck for performance and drivability. It was UNDER the hood, nothing came through, and therefore nobody knew it was there.

I had a mild cam, stock converter, and TONS of low end torque.




I just have to ask- have you ever actually ran a tunnel ram on the street before?

Not personally but have been tempted. A buddy did one on a 454 BBC gmc Blazer with dual #1850 holleys. Once dialed in, it worked amazingly good.
Love those 4 wheel burnouts.
I've been tempted to modify one for vortec heads and cut a hole in the hood of my Bird, just for grins.
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Old 02-18-2007, 03:42 AM
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Think you have the wrong guy. I`ve never sent you the first PM and never would and you`ve never sent me one and I can cut and paste to prove that.
Secondly I don`t own a car, I own a truck, and if I`ve sent you PM`s about it maybe you can tell me about my truck. You call it attacking, I call it defending myself since you know very well you only do the posts like this one just so you can flame some of us, your just like a kid you like to push to see how some of us are going to react.
Yes I played with a tunnel ram about 10 years ago on a 400 small block that had 200cc dart II heads, 3000 stall, 3.73 gears, 488/510 lift cam, dual 450 Holleys, once dialed in we didn`t leave it on since we liked how it performed with a single carb much better and it wasn`t such a headache to tune.
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Old 02-18-2007, 10:52 AM
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Sorry fella, I don't have 18 months of PMs stored in a box made for 50. I don't remember what you drive.

I've had 17 different people PM me for help since Christmas. I have 4 that are in regular communication with me.

5 have expressed that they chose not to participate in antagonistic threads.

You choose to click on threads and make antagonistic comments.
If you don't like it, don't participate.

If you get "inflamed", that is your own choice. Nobody can give you "feelings" without your permission. Learn to control yourself, it's part of "growing up".

I am here to help people learn.

Last edited by xntrik; 02-18-2007 at 10:57 AM.
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Old 02-18-2007, 11:37 AM
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i for one am going to run a tunnel ram. i come to this site for information and knowledge from people that have had success in using them. granted they are not the best set up to use in todays world. but its a road i have chosen to explore. if it does not work then no big deal. i don't understand how a thread that started out with some thoughts on the subject turns into an ugly war and the different experiences plus useful insights from people with knowledge to share is lost. i have been away from hot rodding for 15 plus years. in the last 6 months i have learned more from todays forums and different people with diffract styles, thoughts and open mindedness, then i learned in 20 years of listening to the speed shop guru or go-fast magazines.
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Old 02-18-2007, 11:49 AM
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If anyone has manifolds they would measure, length and volume, and share the information with us, I would definitely appreciate that.

It is not an easy task to measure runner volume of all eight runners of a manifold. Nor do I have ready access to numerous manifolds.

True, we know what works in the real world, that is what the manufacturers are for.
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Old 02-18-2007, 03:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xntrik
Many tests have shown that properly done, a tunnel ram makes more power across the board than any other carb set up.

I am an analytical and pragmatic engineer. I need hard evidence to convince me of a certain position.

A tunnel ram makes more power across the board than any other carb setup? ON all engines?

Can you provide some of these tests, or maybe some of the data from these tests so that we can see what you're looking at? You say there are many, not sure what source you're referencing.

Also, I was a little unclear on the runner length thing you were trying to explain. Is your point that most people think tunnel ram intakes have shorter length runners, but you've measured a couple and its not true? If so that is interesting.

K
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Old 02-18-2007, 04:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by killerformula
A tunnel ram makes more power across the board than any other carb setup? ON all engines?

Can you provide some of these tests, or maybe some of the data from these tests so that we can see what you're looking at? You say there are many, not sure what source you're referencing.

Also, I was a little unclear on the runner length thing you were trying to explain. Is your point that most people think tunnel ram intakes have shorter length runners, but you've measured a couple and its not true? If so that is interesting.

K

Do mismatched combinations count?? I SAID "PROPERLY DONE".
Don't stretch to absurdity to press a point.

I gave back to back dyno sheet reference pages a couple times and people implied that either the magazines or the dyno operators were lying.

The comment was made that tunnel rams have short runners for top end power.

I was suprised when the RPM intake measured 5-6 inches long and the tunnel ram was also 5. The RPM looks longer. I do understand if someone feels that he needs to measure it for himself. Offhand it IS hard to believe.

No big intake length difference when you measure all the way to the intake valve seat.

Fact is that tunnel rams give almost equal mixture distribution to all cylinders because the straight shot to the valve prevents fuel puddling because of centrifugal force. Tunnel rams idle better than single plane flat intakes because they give better fuel distribution with dual quads on top.

Just sharing information for those who chose to receive.
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Old 02-18-2007, 06:05 PM
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I personally have had great benefit to xntrik's presence on this forum, I appreciate that someone with knowledge as great as his is willing to share it with people such as me and yourselves. I believe that you all should not tell him off but thank him for actually taking time out of his day and helping those of us in need.........
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Old 02-18-2007, 09:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xntrik
Do mismatched combinations count?? I SAID "PROPERLY DONE".
Don't stretch to absurdity to press a point.
Jesus dude, RELAX. I was just asking a question. I'm not exactly sure what you meant by "properly done." I assumed what you meant was properly setup and tuned, which I know a lot of people with tunnel ram manifolds have a lack of success/experience with. It sounded to me that you were recommending that tunnel rams be used more often, and I honestly don't have a comment on that. I like how they look, and would be interested in experimenting with any data you can provide. If you posted sources before, I didn't see them-

K
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