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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 02-17-2012, 04:21 PM
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OP: It would be wise to listen to 4Jawchuck on this one. With your "current" combo you DONT have the motor to support that much Carb or that big of a stall Converter. With a milder motor you dont just put 2 750's on and expect a killer set up. Another point.. You dont install a 5k stall on a mild engine and expect great performance.

2-390's (780CFM) is plenty for a mild street set up.

I run a 5500 stall and a 1050 cfm Dominator on a 14-1 BBC. Camshaft is .715 lift.. I just Cant imagine you needing more carb than my motor.

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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 02-17-2012, 04:24 PM
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Jester, that cam you mentioned seems like a reasonable candidate. Whe i ran the twin 450s on my motor, they were never tuned. Simply pulled out of the boxes and bolted on, motor fired up and ran decent. There was no work done to them what so ever, and they still ran pretty good. I had a total of maybe 6-8 hours on that motor, but it didnt foul out the plugs. That surprised me since i thought the motor was over carbed (900cfm between the two carbs) and it was puking fuel in the motor; it seemed to run somewhat decent, with what i already had, but a lot of people told to ditch the tunnel ram ideea, and everyone i asked had no clue about t-rams.
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old 02-17-2012, 04:34 PM
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maverickmechanic13, There is nothing wrong about the setup, Holley 450's were really made to work with manual tranny where you can bring the rev's up and drop the clutch. Automatic takes fine tunnig to make it work. VS carb's works better on automatic tranny. It know's when the secondary will open when it needs it. You will not bog when you hammer the gas pedal.

Last edited by lg1969; 02-17-2012 at 04:39 PM.
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Old 02-17-2012, 04:37 PM
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VS Carbs? Pardon my ignorance but what are those?
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old 02-17-2012, 04:41 PM
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Vacuum secondary carb. That is what Holley 390's are.
http://www.allcarbs.com/detail.php?p...&ctgn=71&stt=5

Last edited by lg1969; 02-17-2012 at 04:53 PM.
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Old 02-17-2012, 06:06 PM
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What's so different about these carbs when compared to a set of of the regular 8007s? In other words if I got two 8007s what do I have to modify on them to make them t-ram friendly?
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Old 02-17-2012, 06:20 PM
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They have a balance line for uniform secondary operation. It also has a quick change cover to change the springs. A standard 8007 does not have that option.
You can also get it for less on E-bay.

Last edited by lg1969; 02-17-2012 at 06:26 PM.
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Old 02-17-2012, 06:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maverickmechanic13
Jester, that cam you mentioned seems like a reasonable candidate. Whe i ran the twin 450s on my motor, they were never tuned. Simply pulled out of the boxes and bolted on, motor fired up and ran decent. There was no work done to them what so ever, and they still ran pretty good. I had a total of maybe 6-8 hours on that motor, but it didnt foul out the plugs. That surprised me since i thought the motor was over carbed (900cfm between the two carbs) and it was puking fuel in the motor; it seemed to run somewhat decent, with what i already had, but a lot of people told to ditch the tunnel ram ideea, and everyone i asked had no clue about t-rams.
My 450s are reworked and actually flow quite a bit more, jet tuned with 50 cc pumps, Idles at 1800 rpm street (no problem with the stall converter at stops) my line lock is on the rear brakes if I put it on the front brakes The brake stall on the converter will push me through staging lights! Trans brake would have been better!! So I hold my line lock bellow flash stall But above brake stall and it launches great! I could have gone to a higher stall but would have had more slippage at top end right now slippage is only about 100 rpm at top end. And on the street it doesn't have as much heat build up as with higher stall converters. We put a lot of miles on in the summer! I run 650s on the street ( I put on 450s for my wife to drive lol ) They are her carbs for her tunnel ram set up for her 79 camaro she doesn't like the 650s on the vette every time she just touches the gas she lays rubber & gets mad I just laugh and she gets madder LOL

One Saturday Last year I went to an air port that holds a car show and old time drag race once a year on one of the run ways and ran the 650s (they're not stock out of the box either) I came home and didnt change em back ( I put it off and then forgot) On Thursday my wife and I went to a Pixies that has a cruise night every Thursday during the summer I drove there she wanted to drive back! When she was leaving and pulling out of the drive she hit the gas the vette went absolutely bananas And she panicked & gave it more gas LOL The rear quarters were just coated with hot rubber!! She pulled over and was just shaking all over I felt so sorry for her ( but I had a big smile on my face LOL) So we switched places and I went back to Pixies (after she got through punching me) so she could cool down & relax a little. When we pulled in she got a standing ovation !!! I thought she would smile but she just got madder & punched my shoulder again !! But at least now about 5 months later when any one mentions it she smiles & turns red in the face (shes so cute )! She never drives like that purposely the 650s are real light on the throttle, the 450s are stiffer she has to push a little harder!! So it was all my fault! I still smile when I think about it

Jester
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 02-17-2012, 06:57 PM
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That's a great story, But why would she be mad? She had the baddest Vette around. At least they would not bother her if there is a challenge.
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Old 02-17-2012, 09:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lg1969
That's a great story, But why would she be mad? She had the baddest Vette around. At least they would not bother her if there is a challenge.

There's always a car faster my vette is just a good running car among many not pretty just quick! There's a choice to be made in a build!! If I build an engine for drag Ill be coming home at the end of each weekend and tearing down that engine and going through it every week. And it will be built to the outer tolerances of what you can get away with! It will be built with all bottom end components, or all mid range or all top end. you cant run a top end motor with a bottom end intake and mid range gears and expect good results at the strip ( but with bracket racing I guess you can) A bottom end car can leave the line faster and be 15 car lengths ahead and turn in a 10 second time but a top end car will catch up in the second half of the quarter and can turn in the same 10 second time, witch is faster the one quicker off the line or the one that did the catching up? Plan a build just dont throw any thing together that makes H.P. one part can actually take away from another !a large tube header may not scavenge as good as a small in some combinations, a smaller head exhaust port then the header primary pipe can some times help exhaust reversion and create HP, a smaller intake port then the head intake port can do the same thing in some combinations.

On the street I want to have fun but still build for speed so I sacrifice what I want and settle for what I can live with. I cant run lockers, slicks, a lot of DOT tires that are actually for racing and slide all over in a slight drizzle , big harry cams, 5.88 gears, wheelie bars I build my engines for a summer and go all through em in the winter because I build em on the edge! but I still want to drive 500 miles one way to a show, I cant stand trailer queens, I hate throttle stops, I cant stand burn out kings with line locks on front brakes or no rear brakes but when their done with their burn out and hit second gear they puke, I hate superchargers that surge (but thats the in thing now) Or thumper cams!! H E L L just create a miss and save the money on the thumper if you want the sound! I run 110 octane or higher and I like it. If I have a long run I run premium with an octane booster and crank my timing back. My wife likes that pinia calada additive in my tank rather then smelling high octane fuel (I think its kind of sissy)LOL I like the cherry

Usually the slugs show off on the streets, and make it bad for the rest of us, I usually get some slug that pulls up next to me revving his engine with something to prove, it takes every bit of control to hold back but I do! (well most of the time) Sometimes Ill bob my front end up and they will back off! Every one on here knows what Im talking about!! Guys with the fast cars give a thumbs up to each other they have nothing to prove.

I run 18" x 3" collectors coming out 3"s past my frame under my doors with caps with wing nuts and I like to go into car shows with em uncorked! I have fun doing this I hate burn out contests where they chuck peoples front tires and spray water and you spin the tires till they pop (what the heck does that prove)

I guess I had A little rant: sorry:LOL Jester
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 02-17-2012, 10:42 PM
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agreed well said
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 02-17-2012, 11:27 PM
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This is what my setup looks like. Actually thats what it looked like a while ago when the engine was actually in the car. It actually is on a stand next to the car now lol whie im building a beefier tranny for it at the moment.
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old 02-18-2012, 12:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F-BIRD'88
Ya I did build one with two edelbrock 750's. Some one wanted it more than I did, I needed the money and they made me an offer I couldn't refuse.

Another one is in the works.

Carb sizing for tunnel rams is well known to those that make them go fast.
Here is an example of a 347cid Ford with a t ram using two 825 cfm carbs.
Makes impressive horsepower.
http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/e...r/viewall.html

Tunnel rammed motors don't care about common carb size selection rules created for stock and near stock vehicles that make less than 350hp.
Killer engine build. Thats the kinda build that will make a tunnel ram shine. But now your comparing a "No expense spared" race motor to a mild engine. A sheet metal intake is far superior to a "out of box" tunnel ram. So you take a 14.5 to 1 with a sheet metal intake, a killer set of heads and a Vacume pump and your comparing apples to oranges.
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 02-18-2012, 02:39 PM
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There is a different formula used for figuring Cfm on drag cars and street & mild build engines!!! I took for granted every one knew this! But I guess not, as your particular eng increases in efficiency Cfm and flow characteristics increase as well on a stock eng with the base formula a 350 eng might only need 450 or 500 cfm at 6000 rpm with a mild intake and cam.you change to a better intake with the same cam and efficiency and flow increases and the Cfm demand increases, on tunnel rams and other race intakes that demand increases drastically and there is a different formula for figuring cfm!!! The closer you get to 100 percent efficiency The more the formula changes and fuel and air demand increases!

A single carb intake does not reach the flow or fuel demand of a tunnel ram or its efficiency at the tunnel rams rpm ranges thats why they create so much power!! Im not digging through all my paper work to post the formula but as efficiency increases the numbers in the formula change (Its common sense) At 100 percent efficiency you can add nitrous and not gain 1 hp you cant go over 100 percent!!

One of the engineers on here must have the formula and can post it. The disagreement with fire bird doest make any sense to me hes right and there is no two ways of looking at it. If you dont believe what Im saying I don't really care you need a little schooling! I can build three engines exactly alike run three identical tunnel rams and carbs and each will have to be tuned different each will have different characteristics, I can take two carbs off one that are tuned in! put em on the other and have to change all the jets to tune it in! One eng. might run best with 750s but the other built exactly the same may run best with 800s. No one said you cant run little carbs and little cams and not be happy .But that if you only knew what you were missing you may change your mind.

These formulas I used to use all the time! but after 40 years I dont need to pull em out and read em. I pretty much know from exp f. bird probably through experience is the same.

One big carb on a tunnel ram is not as efficient as 2 - 4 barrels of equal combined cfm the front and rear ports get a slower flow velocity and air fuel charge then the 4 center ports even with the big plenem.So stay away from that combination.Stay away from spread bores the small primary's over their corresponding intake ports create the same effect same thing with vacuum secondary's I dont need to explain about vacuum secondary its only too obvious!! I dont want an argument, Im not going to be sucked into that again on here! Summit and other company's are selling cheep tunnel ram combos and will tell you the vacuum secondary carbs are set up for tunnel rams DONT BELIEVE EM!! They just dont work!!!! call the Holly techs they never designed those carbs for tunnel rams!! they were designed for stock replacement carbs! Look at all the vacuum ports on em they look like porcupines. You dont want any vacuum coming off any of your carbs in my opinion! If you need vacuum advance make sure you hook it to both carbs distributor ports in the metering block on hollys with a tee. It changes with other cabs but the same principle.

Jester

Last edited by painted jester; 02-18-2012 at 02:48 PM.
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Old 02-19-2012, 08:52 AM
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lg1969

painted jester is on the money! I have a 383 Stroker w/700R4 and 3.90 Ford 9"rear axle. I've been running twin Holley 450's, w/mech. secondaries and no choke, on a Weiand T Ram for 4 years without any problems. I cruise around town and blow it out on the Interstate at 70 mph without any second thoughts. I also have hydraulic boost disc brakes, just in case I may loose my vacuum.
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