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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 09-03-2010, 09:52 PM
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my KARMA ran over my DOGMA
 

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I don't care whats wrong with the camera, thats a beauty,,,envy

Quote:
One of my questions is this: What is really happening with a tunnel ram in terms of vacuum vs. a lower plane manifold?
Just a thought with respect to your 3rd gear sluggishness,,, Have you tried flipping the air scoop around? At increased MPH the scoop produces a bigger effect on flow and may be messing with the natural aspiration of the tunnel ram/carb combo....yeah I know its out there but ideas are free

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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 09-03-2010, 11:30 PM
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Hey guys - all of you...

I can't tell you how much I appreciate all of the comments. I have looked at other forums and watched the guys fight over who knows the most, and it is really irritating. This is just wonderful to read what you have to say and no one is all over someone else calling them an idiot.

What a refreshing site to be on!!!

F-Bird -
Have to say, I would have guessed you would have written the text for those bushings!!! And nice of you to say that possibly I may not need that type of advance strategy with the current cam. This is all easy stuff to try and very reversible. I try to log notes on everything I do, so I don't have to repeat lessons already learned.

Still scared to death to try starting the car without an ignition cut off switch at 20 plus degrees, but nothing is going to break once. If I need to throw the switch I can and act like a real racer. We'll see if I fool anyone after they hear the tame idle after it starts.

Really curious to try this.

I think I'm going to call these guys Tuesday and talk to them. I want to ask them about Eric's thought that they won't fit without alteration. They look perfectly round to me. Now, I can't believe I'm going to pay $29 for $2 worth of parts, but they take the guess work out of the dimensions. Certainly worth some labor savings there. Bet they won't release the inner and outer diameter specs!!!

In regards to the secondary side of the carbs, everyone seems to be on board with going bigger. I just had always thought that since I was over carbed I didn't need to do anything back there, but it certainly seems to be consistent that what little it may open, needs to be correctly jetted for proper air flow.

What I currently have is a 34R9716-6. Equivalent to a 69 jet. I believe you want me to install a 134-21 which correlates to a 75. Or I can do the plate from Quick Fuel 34-3 for a few dollars more and then purchase jets as needed. Seems like that might be the least expensive way to go over the long haul.

Could this be the area that I'm missing the kick or turbo coming in feel because the overall mixture is leaning out when the secondaries are opening?

Would trying 79 jets just be another experiment or is there some logic to apply after the 75's are installed. How do I really know which way to go without going too far? Now, don't call me lazy, but changing jets with two carbs takes some time! I know I asked for it...

I'm really anxious to hear your response on this one. It just seems like something isn't right and after 12 years of wondering what it has been, this would really be an amazing solution.

Appreciate the compliment on the car. Thanks!!! Too bad you live so far away, we could go cruise the beach! It's a kick!

Custom -
We'll get some new photos once the pipes are recoated. Jet Hot is going to redo them for free - love those guys - and once they are back on, I'll have some nice photos to share. Thanks!!!

Now I hate to show this next photo, because you are catching me with a dirty part on my hands!!!

The hood scoop design is pretty much a fake. It is not sealed on the bottom so that air can enter between the two carbs probably easier than they do through the wire mesh screen with the foam behind it - the main reason why it is dirty. If I try to clean the screen, the foam deteriorates.



I really don't think that turning it around would make a difference in this case because of the open bottom, but possibly it would be a good idea to remove the foam so the air gets a straight shot coming in from the front. Let's see what the other guys think. I know from my days in the auto biz, that it didn't take much in front of a radiator to effectively block the air flow at high speeds and maybe this is doing the same. It might not look as nice seeing the K & N filter back there, but if the foam is part of the issue, I'm ready to try it out.

Let me throw out something new to everyone who is reading this post.

One of the weak parts of the engine cosmetics is the throttle linkage between the two carbs. I'm thinking of using some chrome heim joints (like what is on there) with offsetting spacers to dress this up and threaded stainless. Any ideas of commercially available products from a manufacturer that deals in this area of the car?



And finally, since Custom brought up the intake situation with the scoop, let me ask your opinions on the exhaust extensions. They don't have a muffler inside but a welded insert that you can see in the photo. I have thought about opening this up, and would need to do so before the pipes get recoated.

Aside from the fact it would make the car louder, could the back pressure from the insert be a major blockage in the engine being able to breathe at high rpm in high second/third gear???



Note how small the opening is in relation to the extension diameter. Not sure that we measured it, but it is probably 2". That seems awfully restricted to me, but maybe backpressure is better for the engine.

I have not run the car without the extensions to see how it performs at high rpm in 3rd gear. No place for me to really try that around where I live.

Welcome comments on the exhaust system. Curious to hear what everyone thinks.

Thanks!!!!!
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old 09-04-2010, 12:20 AM
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F-Bird

I thought the same thing about the restrictors when I saw them a few months back when we had the extensions off. They are fully welded in, so they aren't coming out without detroying the outer surface. I could punch out the centers, but I don't think that would really get the job done.

Not sure what to do about them at this point. Definitely no budget available for new headers from another company - and I don't know if another brand would be less restrictive. I'm sure I'm just skirting on sound pressure laws the way they are.

If the engine can wind freely through 6,000 rpm with my current cam in first gear, does something change about air flow in 3rd with more load on the engine?

And look what I just found on EBAY - 3.42 gears from a company in Texas. No budget for those either, but at least I know where to go if I decide to head in that direction. Guess I need to decide on the total package before buying the next cam.

Plenty of other things to play with first. Maybe this cam will be just fine once I make the changes you have recommended.

Are you saying you want me to run the engine without air filters - just the foam protection up front? The design of the scoop needs some type of plate on top of some spacer (currently the filter) to hold the mounting plates to the scoop itself.



Maybe farbicate some type of open spacer that still utlizes a plate on top to secure everything?

I don't always drive in that clean of an environment to be too excited about running without filters.

Let me know what you think after you take a look at the photo above.
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old 09-04-2010, 12:39 AM
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Took a while to find the compression test results from a few years back.

Range was 230-245. Speed shop had calculated it would be around 10.3 during the engine build. Not sure how consistent that sounds next to these readings.


No problem in degreeing the cam. I need to replace the water pump and find a better looking timing cover, so that can all be done at once. Thanks for the suggestion.

I can do a compression test after the cam location is changed and see where it moves to.

In regards to the dyno test and detonation, the pro's noticed it, not me. It's not like the clanging noise you would hear in a passenger car under load in high gear. They cut the test because of it.

Forgot I had the thre runs they made on You Tube. You should be able to hear the test here: http://www.youtube.com/user/Yegstert.../3/Ux_auP96X8I

If I recall the highest hp reading was 282. At that time, I don't think the secondaries opened at all. I only use 92 octane - doesn't cost that much more in my small tank.

Hear anything of note in the video or from what you see in the exhaust puffs at high rpm? The test was run with 64 jets and 25 squirters.
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old 09-04-2010, 12:42 AM
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my KARMA ran over my DOGMA
 

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Appreciate the compliment on the car. Thanks!!! Too bad you live so far away, we could go cruise the beach! It's a kick!
Or you could come up my way,,, its dear hunting season, I got guns and lots of irish wiskey, yeah bad combo I know but so far so good:

http://www.whitetaileddeer.ca/world-...ilo-hansen.htm

Comment on the linkage; looks are'nt everything and some more chrome may suit you fine but that lokar linkage weak link looks to be in the set screw holding the cable, mine let go frayed the cable and like a dumb **** I stuck it back in the hole and tightened it up some more, fray/broke again. You got 4 springs to deal with and the linkage friction, lots riding there, get something with more grab/metal.

Yeah motor is a big air pump and garbage in makes for garbage out and vice versa, exhaust looks like a big choke, great pics. Try and run it without the scoop and then maybe open headers,,, you'd be rock'n
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 09-04-2010, 12:53 AM
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Custom!!!

You crack me up but my wife and kids would be all over me if you came after some of the deer that visit our backyard!!! Now, the whisky they could live with!!!



I better keep on topic though.

Interesting comment about the linkage. Has never been a problem. Probably installed in 1999-2000. Works for me!!! Now, watch it let loose tomorrow...

Just ran it with the scoop the other day, filters in place - no real differenc that I could tell. Purple spring day if anyone is keeping track!!!
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 09-04-2010, 01:06 AM
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F Bird

That pic was taken a week ago when the squirters and larger jets went in. No plan to remove them this weekend as I have to take off on a trip in couple of days and won't be back for a week. Need to leave the car together so my son can cruise around in it. Now, that my 16 year old daughter is starting to drive it - with me along so far, things are really getting scary!

I do face a lot of compromises in this being a street, never raced car. But I always remember my brother's 68 GTO flying through the qtr, and mine - well, it would be an interesting match to see if he could have caught me on the top end with the launch I have. Even he is impressed when we go out on a drive.

As far as the quarter mile goes, I'm way too chicken for that in this car. Too many old parts that can fail, no head protection if something goes wrong etc. Just want it fast to 75 and I'm happy.

Guess I could drill out the restrictors to open them up to 3" or so, but have a feeling the sound would be a killer next to my ear for hour long drives. Much less be ticket causing. I only get once chance with the recoat, so this just may have to stay the way it is, and then once in a while head out somewhere and try it with the mufflers off.

I'm sure it would be a real kick!!!
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 09-04-2010, 01:17 AM
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Well, this is an interesting twist!

The pistons that came in the car were huge high domes that the engine shop said were in the range of 13:1 to one with the 454 Hi Perf Heads that are on it. They put in a relatively flat piston. Hope you can see that in this photo.



Here is one of the Hi Perf 454 head:



The side of the head



And the engine after it was rebuilt and the heads had to come off



Now, before we get too carried away on the compression, I don't have a date on paper the numbers were written on. Maybe these were before numbers!!! Let me pull the plugs and run another test to see where we are at.

Hope I didn't make a mistake here, but sounds like it would be a good thing if I did!!!
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 09-04-2010, 01:20 AM
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Let me check with a guy that helped me with the car a month ago. That is when we went to a colder plug. Possibly he ran a compression test. Should be able to hook up with him tomorrow.
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old 09-04-2010, 01:27 AM
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my KARMA ran over my DOGMA
 

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I could fit 12 of those bambi's in my scope and 6 in my fry pan..lol. You got pics and pics of every sort, good stuff. yeah topic I forgot too...

See ya got he summit holley 4010 fuel line there with filter on the carbs and slipped in the custom 3/8 line to the front carb very creative did the same on a single line and plugged off the tee side on my edey.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-G3140-1/
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 09-04-2010, 01:49 AM
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Custom -

Yes, it looks pretty clean and avoided the cost of the true AN fittings - I didn't want blue and red showing. Unfortunately, I have burned the chrome off and nickel is showing. Not too excited that they are $75 for a replacement! Ruined my night!

F-Bird...

You know I loved my Firebird - 73 Formula 350 and turned it into a TransAm with a 400 in it. Double pumper was just sweet in that car. And for Custom's delight, here is a pic:



Wish I had better pictures of it in burgandy before the clear cracked and I repainted it white. Not the flairs and side scoops were all glassed in. Have been a show car guy all of these years!

Unfortunately I don't have all of the specs that the calculator requires. I turned the engine over to the guys at the shop and they put together the specs.

The piston numbers I do have: L2287F .60 over

Just happened to see this article posted on the web on an engine rebuild with these pistons - different heads, etc. Not a true comparison, but the result was 10.25:1

http://www.superchevy.com/tech/0106s...wer/index.html

http://www.pawinc.com/shoppingcart/S...=979&catid=366

Not sure that this helps much, but all I have are part numbers from the build.
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Old 09-04-2010, 02:04 AM
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my KARMA ran over my DOGMA
 

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pipes, shaker, flares, mags, vents, candy, stripes,,,attitude dude,,, thanks for share'n over & out till flip side
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old 09-04-2010, 10:34 AM
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Well...don't have good news here...

But first...I still need to check with the guy who was helping with timing/running hot, etc. Pretty sure he ran a compression check while doing so and thought he said one plug looked bad. Second one from the front - driver's side. He didn't mention anything about pressures being out of whack in terms of super high, so I'm thinking that sheet that had my compression readings was from before the rebuild - and the speed shop had said the original pistons were 13.5:1.

We determined that the car was running hot from it being too lean, changed the t stat to a 180 which did wonders, and adjusted the timing to reduce total advance. At no time did I ever hear a traditional ping out of the engine, so I really don't think my compression numbers were accurate - for the rebuild. True the compression may still be too high for 92 or 89 for that matter, but the engine always ran great - except for it being too hot on extended idling and freeway driving in 90 degree weather.

Now for the bad news....

My son took the car out today to head over to a local car show. Let me preface this by saying that in July of 2009, he was going to the same show with my neighbor right behind him in his 1941 Indian motorcycle. My son stopped for the red light, my neighbor did not. After 13 months, I just got the car running again in early August.

Today as he and a friend is heading to the same show...his friend notices that the oil pressure gauge is at 0. One mile later, puffs of smoke, engine dies.

Starter just grunts when the key is turned.

Total of maybe 4 miles from my house. Temp was at 180. No holes in the block. Block wasn't hot and I was there inside of 15 minutes.

From watching all these ads about engines running forever with super lubricants in them, I would have thought it could have gone 4 miles without lube, but what do I know. It had oil pressure yesterday when I took it for a run. Gauge only - no warning light.

Just put a rachet on it, and it won't turn a 1/4".

Sucks.

Before the son comments started coming out, help me with next steps.

Valve covers first? Plug the plugs, heads?

Don't even know where to start.

All I know is I'm out of work as of 3 weeks ago, and this is the last thing I needed. The car was bringing fun into my life at a time when I needed some tension relief. No funds are available to fix the car, but I'd like to know how much damage there is.

Help me guys.

Thanks,
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Old 09-04-2010, 11:44 AM
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my KARMA ran over my DOGMA
 

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Man too bad about that failure, can't imagine how you feel but yeah time to find out what happened.

No amount of zbart etc is going to cushion the mains and rods will 0 psi oil, again sorry to here about it.

Yeah time to get in there, start with dropping the pan if its not too hard to do cause likely the bottom end is either broke or bearings plain worn down. Or just pull the heads but that can be just as much or more work than the pan.

One other thing to consider, maybe just leave it for a bit and lick them wounds, take the boy and family out for some fun,,,somehow.

I have often though of rigging a pressure switch up to monitor oil pressure. This would then cut out the HEI power supply on a low presssure condition, it would need a time delay for start up but that is no big deal for me since controls is what I do.
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Old 09-04-2010, 11:53 AM
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Hi there Custom,

Going to detail a car to get my mind off of it for a few hours. At least it still looks good sitting in the bay next to where I'll be cleaning the other car.

Really curious if the oil pump let go. Plenty of oil in the crankcase. No evidence of water contaimination.

We'll see....later today...will check back in about 6 hours from now...

Thanks!
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