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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 09-04-2010, 12:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yegster
F Bird

That pic was taken a week ago when the squirters and larger jets went in. No plan to remove them this weekend as I have to take off on a trip in couple of days and won't be back for a week. Need to leave the car together so my son can cruise around in it. Now, that my 16 year old daughter is starting to drive it - with me along so far, things are really getting scary!

I do face a lot of compromises in this being a street, never raced car. But I always remember my brother's 68 GTO flying through the qtr, and mine - well, it would be an interesting match to see if he could have caught me on the top end with the launch I have. Even he is impressed when we go out on a drive.

As far as the quarter mile goes, I'm way too chicken for that in this car. Too many old parts that can fail, no head protection if something goes wrong etc. Just want it fast to 75 and I'm happy.

Guess I could drill out the restrictors to open them up to 3" or so, but have a feeling the sound would be a killer next to my ear for hour long drives. Much less be ticket causing. I only get once chance with the recoat, so this just may have to stay the way it is, and then once in a while head out somewhere and try it with the mufflers off.

I'm sure it would be a real kick!!!
its going to be a very short ride with a that much cylinder pressure on pump gas.

If you want quiet pipes then don;t drill em out cause it will be louder.

You have a unworkable combination. Who ever came up with this combo has no clue.

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  #32 (permalink)  
Old 09-04-2010, 12:17 AM
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Well, this is an interesting twist!

The pistons that came in the car were huge high domes that the engine shop said were in the range of 13:1 to one with the 454 Hi Perf Heads that are on it. They put in a relatively flat piston. Hope you can see that in this photo.



Here is one of the Hi Perf 454 head:



The side of the head



And the engine after it was rebuilt and the heads had to come off



Now, before we get too carried away on the compression, I don't have a date on paper the numbers were written on. Maybe these were before numbers!!! Let me pull the plugs and run another test to see where we are at.

Hope I didn't make a mistake here, but sounds like it would be a good thing if I did!!!
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old 09-04-2010, 12:20 AM
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Let me check with a guy that helped me with the car a month ago. That is when we went to a colder plug. Possibly he ran a compression test. Should be able to hook up with him tomorrow.
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old 09-04-2010, 12:27 AM
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I could fit 12 of those bambi's in my scope and 6 in my fry pan..lol. You got pics and pics of every sort, good stuff. yeah topic I forgot too...

See ya got he summit holley 4010 fuel line there with filter on the carbs and slipped in the custom 3/8 line to the front carb very creative did the same on a single line and plugged off the tee side on my edey.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-G3140-1/
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  #35 (permalink)  
Old 09-04-2010, 12:30 AM
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http://www.wheelspin.net/calc/calc2.html

fill in the variables accuratly to calc the cr.
The piston domes on both pistons are big.
What is the part number on the new pistons.??
What is the CC of the chambers?
deck height etc.

Does this motor have a non stock stroker crank or a 4" stroke 454 crank in it.
The cranking pressure is very high. way too high for pump gas.

Last edited by F-BIRD'88; 09-04-2010 at 12:36 AM.
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old 09-04-2010, 12:49 AM
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Custom -

Yes, it looks pretty clean and avoided the cost of the true AN fittings - I didn't want blue and red showing. Unfortunately, I have burned the chrome off and nickel is showing. Not too excited that they are $75 for a replacement! Ruined my night!

F-Bird...

You know I loved my Firebird - 73 Formula 350 and turned it into a TransAm with a 400 in it. Double pumper was just sweet in that car. And for Custom's delight, here is a pic:



Wish I had better pictures of it in burgandy before the clear cracked and I repainted it white. Not the flairs and side scoops were all glassed in. Have been a show car guy all of these years!

Unfortunately I don't have all of the specs that the calculator requires. I turned the engine over to the guys at the shop and they put together the specs.

The piston numbers I do have: L2287F .60 over

Just happened to see this article posted on the web on an engine rebuild with these pistons - different heads, etc. Not a true comparison, but the result was 10.25:1

http://www.superchevy.com/tech/0106s...wer/index.html

http://www.pawinc.com/shoppingcart/S...=979&catid=366

Not sure that this helps much, but all I have are part numbers from the build.
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  #37 (permalink)  
Old 09-04-2010, 01:04 AM
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my KARMA ran over my DOGMA
 

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pipes, shaker, flares, mags, vents, candy, stripes,,,attitude dude,,, thanks for share'n over & out till flip side
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old 09-04-2010, 01:14 AM
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Based on the limited info that seems to have to be squeezed out of you to get to the root of the problem I guestimate the engine cr at 10.65:1 (stock deck height to as high as 11.4:1. 0decked block
Possibly even higher if the heads were shaved at all. (less than factory 118cc)

This is marginally too high for the cam and 92 gas at 10.65:1 and way too high at 11.4:1.

Your cranking test indicates a 13:1 cr. if the cranking test was accurate, you will never get it to run correctly on pump gas.
Was this the old cranking test with the old full dome pistons or after the rebuild.

Any other facts you are holding back on that won;t take 10 more pages of post to find out?

http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/atta...chmentid=19261

Last edited by F-BIRD'88; 09-04-2010 at 01:20 AM.
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old 09-04-2010, 01:48 AM
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If you read the article the eninge in that article with the same pistons and heads that are mostly likely within a few cc of what your heads should be (118cc)

The cranking pressure was 165psi. This exactly where it should be for 92 octane.

Why is yours so friggin high.?? No wonder it knocks and runs hot.
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  #40 (permalink)  
Old 09-04-2010, 09:34 AM
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Well...don't have good news here...

But first...I still need to check with the guy who was helping with timing/running hot, etc. Pretty sure he ran a compression check while doing so and thought he said one plug looked bad. Second one from the front - driver's side. He didn't mention anything about pressures being out of whack in terms of super high, so I'm thinking that sheet that had my compression readings was from before the rebuild - and the speed shop had said the original pistons were 13.5:1.

We determined that the car was running hot from it being too lean, changed the t stat to a 180 which did wonders, and adjusted the timing to reduce total advance. At no time did I ever hear a traditional ping out of the engine, so I really don't think my compression numbers were accurate - for the rebuild. True the compression may still be too high for 92 or 89 for that matter, but the engine always ran great - except for it being too hot on extended idling and freeway driving in 90 degree weather.

Now for the bad news....

My son took the car out today to head over to a local car show. Let me preface this by saying that in July of 2009, he was going to the same show with my neighbor right behind him in his 1941 Indian motorcycle. My son stopped for the red light, my neighbor did not. After 13 months, I just got the car running again in early August.

Today as he and a friend is heading to the same show...his friend notices that the oil pressure gauge is at 0. One mile later, puffs of smoke, engine dies.

Starter just grunts when the key is turned.

Total of maybe 4 miles from my house. Temp was at 180. No holes in the block. Block wasn't hot and I was there inside of 15 minutes.

From watching all these ads about engines running forever with super lubricants in them, I would have thought it could have gone 4 miles without lube, but what do I know. It had oil pressure yesterday when I took it for a run. Gauge only - no warning light.

Just put a rachet on it, and it won't turn a 1/4".

Sucks.

Before the son comments started coming out, help me with next steps.

Valve covers first? Plug the plugs, heads?

Don't even know where to start.

All I know is I'm out of work as of 3 weeks ago, and this is the last thing I needed. The car was bringing fun into my life at a time when I needed some tension relief. No funds are available to fix the car, but I'd like to know how much damage there is.

Help me guys.

Thanks,
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  #41 (permalink)  
Old 09-04-2010, 10:44 AM
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Man too bad about that failure, can't imagine how you feel but yeah time to find out what happened.

No amount of zbart etc is going to cushion the mains and rods will 0 psi oil, again sorry to here about it.

Yeah time to get in there, start with dropping the pan if its not too hard to do cause likely the bottom end is either broke or bearings plain worn down. Or just pull the heads but that can be just as much or more work than the pan.

One other thing to consider, maybe just leave it for a bit and lick them wounds, take the boy and family out for some fun,,,somehow.

I have often though of rigging a pressure switch up to monitor oil pressure. This would then cut out the HEI power supply on a low presssure condition, it would need a time delay for start up but that is no big deal for me since controls is what I do.
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  #42 (permalink)  
Old 09-04-2010, 10:53 AM
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Hi there Custom,

Going to detail a car to get my mind off of it for a few hours. At least it still looks good sitting in the bay next to where I'll be cleaning the other car.

Really curious if the oil pump let go. Plenty of oil in the crankcase. No evidence of water contaimination.

We'll see....later today...will check back in about 6 hours from now...

Thanks!
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  #43 (permalink)  
Old 09-04-2010, 11:35 AM
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This is quite possibly the worst thing Ive read in a long time. Sorry man. In no time you'll have that thing up and running again. Unless its 1 huge ball of metal its not dead yet.
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  #44 (permalink)  
Old 09-04-2010, 02:07 PM
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Thanks Bubba!

Going to get started on it in a hour. Still won't turn over, so we'll see how the mains look.
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  #45 (permalink)  
Old 09-04-2010, 05:33 PM
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Sorry to hear of this. Operating a severely mistuned engine whether you hear detonation or not will eventually pound the bearings out of it.
When you rebuild it pay close attention to the rod critical dimentions.
check the piston pin holes for distortion too. Detonation is very hard on these critical sizes/clearances.
On a BBC the rods have to be spot on. You may want to consider tuning the new engine under controlled conditions on a engine dyno this time. It will save you money in the end.
Remember when tuning a unknown carb(s) manifold combo its easier/cheaper and much safer to tune from rich (afr), down towards lean to dial it in.

Lean mixture hurts stuff.. All being a bit too rich on the jetting will do is foul a set of plugs. Next time start rich 76 pri 75sec and work your way down.
Verify the measured compression ratio. Anything above 10.5 can be very troublesome on this motor. After establishing the real cr you can trim a bit off the solid dome if nessessary. it won't take a lot to bring it to spec.
A true 10:1 is a lot easier to deal with in the real world.
Its worth it to put in the effort to get it right. The engine will last a lot lot longer.
Exceeding the laws of physics is expensive.
Let us know how you make out with this.

If you want professional help with this I recomend this guy in California.
He is a true expert on high perf BBC's and a old hand with tunnel rams, correct tuning and making big reliable power.

Joe Sherman Racing Engines.
http://www.joeshermanracing.com
Google it. He can help you, if you are serious.

Last edited by F-BIRD'88; 09-04-2010 at 05:40 PM.
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