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Old 11-08-2007, 06:58 PM
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Turbo Big block

I want to turbo a big block in a 1963 Biscayne station wagon. right now, it is bone stock (the best to start with in my book) with the Powerglide and the 283 small block. I have a 8.1L out of a 2001 chevy pickup, and I was planning on using the Powerglide again with better guts. I also have the complete wiring harness and electronics package out of a 1992 Mustang GT 5.0 5 spd, and the A9L computer. the electronics I am familiar with. I am not familiar with which size turbo will fit this car the best. this is a budget build, as I am a semi- poor college student in Denver. I am looking at a single turbo, possibly 60 to 70 MM, I want to get about 600 HP and as much torque as possible. I have a good welder and I know how to use it, along with all the tools to fabricate the tubing. the car will be used for drag strip and cruising. I was thinking that maybe a stock turbo off of one of the late model diesel pickups might work too. I have been researching for a couple of weeks now, and havent found much info. I am looking for AR ratios and such to compare to. thanks for any info, mike.

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Old 11-08-2007, 07:30 PM
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well, your not going to run a fuel injected Chevy 8.1l w/ the computer from a Ford 302

As for 600 hp, it's possible but, WHY? you could go a lot faster in a smaller car w/ less HP, if that's what you wanted, you picked the wrong car

the PG will need built up w/ good parts to handle the 600 HP, and you'll have to replace the pre '64 rear with a good 10 or 12 bolt, cause it's not real strong ither.

As for a Turbo out of a Diesel pickup, there too small due to the RPM operating range they run in. you need a BIG single turbo to feed 8.1L, but if you used 2 it would be easier to run, you could be in boost quicker with less lag..
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Old 11-08-2007, 10:23 PM
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How big of turbo, or combo of turbos should I run? 600 HP means two that can handle 300 each, right? or do I go seqencial and run a smaller in tandem with a larger one, like on the RX7's? The Ford fuel injection is going on because it is the easiest to find parts for, I know how to modify it to work on anything, and it was free.
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Old 11-09-2007, 11:07 AM
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The Ford fuel injection won't work w/ the Chevy, theres just no way, maby on a 350 or somthing, but the computer can't handle 8.1L. then add in boost, it's a whole diffrent ball game. '92 5.0 is just EEC-IV which uses a TFI coil, where are you going to find a Chevy distributor that uses a TFI coil????

There is no HP rated real turbo, the ebay junkers are jokes that list that. a turbo properly sized to an engine has no limit

8.1 L is very close to 500 CI

SO you'll need

2 turbo's of .100 exhaust A/R and about a .150 intake/ compressor A/R each for 2 turbos. somthing with 60 or 70mm wheels will work
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Old 11-09-2007, 11:19 AM
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I wonder if the Heads on the 8.1 will be the restriction in the system (hey-I rhymed!) -after all, they are designed for Torque (Vortecs)-
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Old 11-09-2007, 11:21 AM
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Thanks for the info. That helps alot. that sounds like a huge turbo X 2. time to search for them. I will let you guys know how it went. BTW, Im looking for lots of torque, HP is secondary. There is one company that makes aftermarket heads for the 8100 Vortec, but they are really expensive. I was going to port them out some. The thing that attracted me to the engine was the price (500) and they supposedly have forged bottom ends and low compression. perfect for nitrous/blower/turbo. I never messed with turbo, so this car is the experiment. should be fun!!
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Old 11-09-2007, 11:45 AM
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If 600 horse is your goal it would probably be cheaper and easier to build a normally aspirated motor. It should not be that difficult to get that kind of power out of an engine that large. I'm not familiar with that engine but I'm sure you will need the harness and computer for that engine regardless how you plan to modify it.
It may be better to just use a carb if someone makes a manifold for it. You might want to do more research on turbos as there are several single turbos that will feed plenty of air to large displacement motors but they aren't cheap. By the time you factor in all the hardware and fabrication that goes into a turbo setup it would probably be cheaper to go with a centrifugal blower set up and much easier to install. There are people that get away with running forced induction on stock motors but the boost will have to be low and the tune better be good on pump gas.
You wouldn't need much boost to get 600 out of that motor.
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Old 11-09-2007, 04:01 PM
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Yeah, but I like challenges!! but no, I wanted to build a big block, and I wanted to build a Turbo car, I just combined the two. I already have a 300HP Mustang that goes 12.6 or so in the quarter and pulls 1 G on the skidpad, I will drive that if I wanna go fast. I kinda figured it would cost money, and I anticipate that. I want some hands on experience fabricating my own turbo kit, and I figured this was my chance, since I have a good mandrel tubing bender, a MIG and a stick weld machine, and all the hand tools. Im not worried about the drivetrain issues, they are pretty simple. A decent powerglide and a Ford 9" or other suitable rear end will work. I want the challenge associated with designing and building my own turbo kit. I figured 600 HP is simple out of 8.1 liters. I can do it with my 302 if i really wanna, but the Mustang doesnt need that much power. Just sayin. The turbo is where I need the info. I just need to know what size of turbo will work with a big block, since most people turbocharge small block mustangs and Camaro/Firebirds, and most of the turbos I find are for that size engine. Sorry, I just had to clarify my goals with the car. besides, Twin turbo big block just sounds cool, doesnt it?
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Old 11-09-2007, 04:43 PM
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I just found a cool website with a turbo calculator. it gets you pretty close. It calculates the A/R ratio based on your input, and tells you theretical max HP.

http://www.turbofast.com.au/TFmatch.html
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Old 11-09-2007, 07:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matt167
well, your not going to run a fuel injected Chevy 8.1l w/ the computer from a Ford 302

As for 600 hp, it's possible but, WHY? you could go a lot faster in a smaller car w/ less HP, if that's what you wanted, you picked the wrong car

the PG will need built up w/ good parts to handle the 600 HP, and you'll have to replace the pre '64 rear with a good 10 or 12 bolt, cause it's not real strong ither.

As for a Turbo out of a Diesel pickup, there too small due to the RPM operating range they run in. you need a BIG single turbo to feed 8.1L, but if you used 2 it would be easier to run, you could be in boost quicker with less lag..
I have to disagree with alot of this.....

The computer can run the engine with some tuning software. Tunercat or tweecer come to mind. However, you will have to do some homework on signal types and how to retune the ECU......That said, I would look into megasquirt and just use the harness. It will do everything you need, cost the same or less, give you more versatility, and be easier to work with. It wont take any more skill to build that one that to adapt the other.

You are thinking along the right lines for the big torque curve of the big block turbo setup. It will make ALOT more power under the curve and will MOVE that boat like a little car.....of course in a little car(truck) it would just be plain scary like mine is .

No matter what you do, you will need to upgrade the rear and trans to handle the torque you will see with big cubes and boost. I am using a TH350(well built) and a 9 inch Ford.

RPM operating range has absolutely nothing to do with what application a turbo will work in; turbine/compressor wheel diameter and trim as well as housing A/R's do. Spool up is no better or worse with a single or twins. As a matter of fact two HX35's from a dodge would be ideal for your setup. They will support 800-1000HP depending on application, but will be perfectly happy at lower boost around 600HP. The best thing is that they are very robust, cheap and widely available due to all the upgrades everyone is doing in the diesel world these days. Trust me, if you know you can get 200-400 more HP with the turn of a screw, you will do it eventually.

If you want to go with a big single, you will want something in the 75ish range for the compressor. I would suggest going with something in a large frame garret rather than the T4 frame. The larger turbos have large turbines and provide more turbine power with less backpressure. I have a 76mm TD05 Garrett and it spools instantly. You can see it in my pics. This turbo will support 800-1000HP and my 410cid small block spools it like a champ. It only takes about 1/4 throttle with a light load to make boost, and wide open it screams.

Another advantage of going with a little over size turbo(s) is the slightly slower spool up than what you would have with one that is peaked out at 600HP. This will be easier on all your parts. It is what the 8 and 10 inch tire class guys use to run so fast on so little tire. They are soft on the take off and then just get wicked at the 40-60ft mark.

I have done multiple low budget builds, one of which I built and tuned several ECU's for. I used the VEMS which from my experience I would not recommend. It is a wonderful system, but support and documentation is very limited and alot of the documentation you find is outdated.

If you need more info or help, let me know. I have been tinkering with this stuff for years.
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Old 11-09-2007, 07:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikey94gt
I just found a cool website with a turbo calculator. it gets you pretty close. It calculates the A/R ratio based on your input, and tells you theretical max HP.

http://www.turbofast.com.au/TFmatch.html
These are all based on garrett chargers they sell. Two T4's would work well if you pick the right ones, but they will probably cost you alot because most of the ones used in diesel applications are a little too big on the exhaust side to work well in a pair as well as not having internal gates. They are all tractor type applications so they dont use the small turbine/internal gate setup like the late model trucks. Nobody wants to drive a slug anymore, so they have designed the turbos to spool very quickly and wastgate them to prevent overrun.
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Old 11-09-2007, 10:54 PM
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Youre the guy that I was hoping would respond. That sounds like a good plan, going with the HX35's. I think the Diesel hot rod shop in my home town of Pocatello will have the parts. Do you know what truck they came on so I can grab some? thanks for thinking along the lines of the EECIV computer, I already have all the stuff to tune it. I wasnt going to use the GM computer because they are expensive to tune, and harder to find parts for. Do you know anything about the 8100 Vortec? I dont know much other than most of the older parts dont work save the destributor, bellhousing and motor mounts. Thanks for the info, Mikey

:haha, just re read your post, I have to find a dodge. Do you know what years? thanks again.
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Old 11-10-2007, 08:26 AM
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like 1996 - 2001 has those turbos I belive.
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Old 11-10-2007, 08:45 AM
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I know they have them back to 1995, but I am not sure of the end date....2001-2002 sounds right. 1994 had the WH1C which is basically the same, but watch out when you are looking so you get a matched set either way. You can pick those things up used for $200-250 on ebay and most are in good shape. They are not hard to rebuild if you do get one with some slack. I did an HX40 and it took a couple hours after I figured out how to get it all apart.....which is a little tricky. And, make sure you get matched turbine housings. Some have been swapped out and some were different depending on auto/standard trans.

I dont know much at all about the vortec. As far as the electronics, you just need to be able to mimick the ford signals. Distributor or crank pickup should work....maybe cam trigger in some fashion.... and you can use the other ford ignition stuff. Same probably goes for the sensors. Some of the stuff is going to depend on how much tuning you can do and how "smart" the ECU is. I am pretty sure I saw a Mopar guy that did this conversion on a 440 or similiar for a turbo setup. I am almost sure it was a ford setup running it. I would do as much research as you can on the in/out signals the ECU is looking for to make sure you can easily duplicate them. It could be that the cost to set it up would be better spent buying the megasquirt....which is a proven open programming setup.

I am using a Proflo that has been chopped up to do full sequential injection, and I used the mallory distributor designed for the proflo. I need a crank sensor to actually control injection to valve timing, but it works just fine in sequential with random timing. Unless you are chasing mileage it is really not necessary to time it perfectly. I also dont use the idle control since it is a racer and my foot works just as well in the first 10 seconds of startup. I could wire it, just never did. There really is not that much to wiring and setting it up. The real pain comes in getting all the 100's of settings and mathmatics figured out to make it jive. Have fun!!

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Old 11-10-2007, 08:58 AM
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I would go megasquirt II. there like $400 for the box assembled- real cheap

I don't know about which distributor would work with the 8100 but I do know that MSII will run w/ a standard 4 pin HEI



I was going to go MSII TBI injection w/ my Turbo 200 I6, but the cost and complications would have cost me over $1,000 to do it.. My 6 BTM box, duraspark II and the holley 2300 came in way less than that.
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