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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 03-04-2013, 03:01 PM
How fast is fast enough?
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spinn View Post
turbo charging is a good way to make power. It is gaining popularity in some circles.

As far as restriction, most turbo charged vehicles drive fine. You do not get the power much at part throttle.

A roots supercharged vehicle will have different road manners at part throttle. The engine feels infinitely bigger. Always and instantly .

At 9-10 psi either supercharged or turbocharged , peak numbers are pretty close.
neither makes more power at part throttle, at part throttle your engine is running with manifold vacuum, not boost pressure.

As for lag, either blown or turbo'd vehicles can have a lot or a little lag- its all system dependent.

As for peak numbers again its system dependent but TYPICALLY turbos produce a little more at the same boost levels, NOT ALWAYS though.

The method of forced induction is so often over simplified and is in many ways just as complex as the rest of the engine below it if not more so.

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Old 03-04-2013, 03:22 PM
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At part throttle I am instantly making boost at load, supercharged. I definitely would say the supercharger type is more at part throttle driving around.
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Old 03-04-2013, 03:56 PM
How fast is fast enough?
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spinn View Post
At part throttle I am instantly making boost at load, supercharged. I definitely would say the supercharger type is more at part throttle driving around.
It depends on what you mean by "making boost" if you mean before the throttle plate then yes, you are- and you are with a turbo system as well in most cases.

If you mean past the throttle plate the term "part throttle" itself means you are operating with a vacuum in the manifold, albeit a smaller one than you would see with a closed throttle at the same RPM but not as much as when you go to WOT where your manifold will see the boost pressure resulting in a negative vacuum value (or boost pressure as it is commonly called).
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Old 03-04-2013, 03:59 PM
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I think the pressure is there sooner.

Last edited by spinn; 03-04-2013 at 04:07 PM.
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Old 03-04-2013, 04:11 PM
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If you are working with a turbo and letting out the clutch at 1500rpm pulling up through, and it doesn't get organized until 3500. I was told this is normal.
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Old 03-05-2013, 07:21 AM
How fast is fast enough?
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spinn View Post
If you are working with a turbo and letting out the clutch at 1500rpm pulling up through, and it doesn't get organized until 3500. I was told this is normal.
someone lied to you then.

That can be the case for a race type set up but with a good exhaust manifold and turbo lag is almost nonexistent, further more its not exactly RPM dependent as many claim it to be- its load dependent you can actually maintain the same rpm under load and watch your boost pressure rise.

Just like a blower it all comes down to proper sizing for the application.
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Old 03-05-2013, 07:55 AM
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Ive driven both supercharged and and turbo vehciles that have made power/boost at part throttle. It all depends on the setup.

peace
Hog
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Old 03-05-2013, 09:21 AM
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Now im thinking the ebay kit I used might be a little oversized. Everything is laid out already. I have to assume other people are getting the same drivability result.

From what is available in the aftermarket for my applications, my turbo results were somewhat soft from the line. In comparison to a supercharger kit, on a stock vehicle of the same make/model.

Do you mean, that a kit could be fabricated to deal with the issue, or the ebay turbo kits do not have this concern. Generally speaking?
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Old 03-05-2013, 09:35 AM
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The one thing I like about turbo's is it the power adder that is the easiest on a engine.Nitrous being one of the hardest.
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Old 03-05-2013, 09:51 AM
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I thought originally that the difference in part throttle power and drivability spots were due to the placement of the compressor.

A turbo pushes from in front of the throttle blades and a roots supercharger pushes on the inside. Behind the throttle plates. Less compressible atmosphere between the locations.
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Old 03-05-2013, 09:54 AM
How fast is fast enough?
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spinn View Post
Do you mean, that a kit could be fabricated to deal with the issue, or the ebay turbo kits do not have this concern. Generally speaking?
"ebay turbo" is meaningless as there are some very good turbos on ebay and some very ****ty ones. A well made header/manifold and a properly built turbo will not have any lag problems.

The cheapest **** you can find on ebay is likely not well made nor properly built- BUT you can find quality parts on ebay too.

A turbo needs to be properly built- just like building an engine. There are many different center sections, wheels, housings, wheel/housing modifications, etc. that all need to come together. And then there's the manifold/header side, which is a little more straight forward but still needs proper attention.
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Old 03-05-2013, 09:57 AM
How fast is fast enough?
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spinn View Post
Less compressible atmosphere between the locations.
I think you mean less compressed volume. As for that volume, its very negligible, with turbo ducting you're more concerned with dynamic pressure loss.
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old 03-05-2013, 12:09 PM
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On the auction listings, most of the kits under $1000 are pretty similar. I had my doubts, but coworkers got them. No major problems in over a year of adult daily driving. I am satisfied that the bushing turbo kits are fine if you only want 5-10psi.

I have been told again, its normal.

From tech, Proper turbo sizing requires matching the compressor and turbine assembly. These parameters dictated a range of optimum efficiency. This range falls within an rpm band, referring to impeller rpm. Set up so engine torque peak is close to the peak efficiency island.

Then there is a graph for the units performance map.

A roots type, probably tells you the same thing.

Last edited by spinn; 03-05-2013 at 12:36 PM.
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 03-05-2013, 12:22 PM
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I think i posted this on another thread. Check out cxracing.com. They have the highest quality "ebay turbo's". I'm planning on using their t70 kit. They have great reviews and awesome prices. I highly recommend them.
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old 03-05-2013, 12:41 PM
How fast is fast enough?
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spinn View Post
On the auction listings, most of the kits under $1000 are pretty similar. I had my doubts, but coworkers got them. No major problems in over a year of adult daily driving. I am satisfied that the bushing turbo kits are fine if you only want 5-10psi.

I have been told again, its normal.

From tech, Proper turbo sizing requires matching the compressor and turbine assembly. These parameters dictated a range of optimum efficiency. This range falls within an rpm band, referring to impeller rpm. Set up so engine torque peak is close to the peak efficiency island.

Then there is a graph for the units performance map.

A roots type, probably tells you the same thing.
a big difference between a turbo and a supercharger is that the supercharger's speed is dependent on the rpm of the engine- the turbos speed is dependent on energy of the exhaust to drive it- which means the impellers speed can vary INDEPENDENTLY of the engine's speed. Most people don't realize that.


And yes a roots blower will have the same type of chart but the lines are shaped differently.

Another aspect often overlooked is that the compressor and exhaust sections can be adjusted independently on turbos- both the housings and the wheels- but they have to work together for a particular application. Having either side mismatched will result in less than optimal performance.
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