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Old 10-26-2008, 07:44 PM
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twin turbo setup/ nd advice

I am new to this page, which i feel will help me alot with some decisions! i am tired of know it alls that dont know anything, i am not new to cars at all, but i am new to the turbo scene! And i am building a twin turbo motor for my buick regal, i found a full kit on ebay that looks real decent, wondering if anyone could look it over for me and let me know if it is a good deal or not, im only looking for about 6-650ish hp, mainly just want the twin turbo setup, and a solid motor! http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Chev...emZ260304977306

57 compressor wheel trim mapped for low & high boost setups
Oil fitting gaskets & mounting studs included
Capable of producing over 450 horsepower
wet float bearings & properly balanced
3" inlet diameter with a 2" outlet
.50 A/R compressor housing
.63 A/R turbine housing
1/8 NPT oil inlet
T3/T4 hybrid

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Old 10-26-2008, 08:27 PM
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looks can be deceving.. those cheap china turbo's last about 3,000 miles b4 they are trash. buy a real turbo, like a Garrett, or a Holset
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Old 10-27-2008, 08:29 PM
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Really the choice is yours to make....You can go with a kit like this which basically has the cheaper end of Chinese turbo's in it, and they will last for a while, how long...who knows, 10,000 miles or 1,000 miles. The problem is you are neither going to get high mileage or high performance with this set-up. OR.....you can stop what your doing now, which is basically depending on someone else to make the decisions of the RIGHT turbo to get for your needs, and educate yourself by reading one of several great books available now on modern turbo systems. By dropping back and reading some good literature, you will find out how to properly size a turbo-charger to your specific engine's needs, and you will also find out about all the support hardware needed for a complete turbo-charger installation. Not being smart ***, just stating a fact, and that is way to many on sites like these have no ideal of what they really should be doing, and they also depend on advice from others that also for the most part have no ideal what they are talking about. Get the facts, for they are always the truth, then start from there. There are some very good kits being manufactured, and I'm sure you seen them, but they are also in the $5-6,000.00 range. An amount which comes much closer to representing the true cost of turbo-charging.
I see you did include all the relevant data....Do you even know what it means?? T3T4, AR Ratio ?? Probably not, and that's my point, to make the correct decision on which turbo-charger will fit your engine and work best, requires alot of different items, and most are very specific to your needs. This is why no one on this or any other forum could ever recommend a turbo-charger that is right for your needs, no one. There is a list of at least 10 different specific parameters that must be considered, and none of them are listed in your post.
I'm not singling you out, You just represent the average un-informed consumer. So go get your self at-least one current turbo book and read it, then read it again and maybe you'll understand the complicated method of properly choosing a turbo-charger for ones application. Good Luck.
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Old 10-28-2008, 09:29 AM
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If you've got a Buick Regal then why don't you just go with a GN engine?

It's real simple to make the power your wanting and ALL the parts are avalible and matched!!!

If you want to do somthing custom that's fine... I've got no problem with that at all. It's a MUCH more expensive road and if you've not done that before you'll be sure and do alot of stuff twice or three times to get it right which takes more time and money.

All the GN stuff will fit and bolt right on.

My Camaro with a GN engine runs 10.30's on 93oct at 133mph. I'm happy with it
~Scott.
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Old 10-28-2008, 11:48 AM
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Being a Turbo Buick guy, I agree with, Scott. However, converting anything to a turbo Buick drivetrain w/o a donor GN or T-Type can get very expensive. If you've got a Regal w/ no motor or it's already setup for a V8 you'll never find a better deal than this one...

http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/par...turbo-lt1.html

Don't know if it's still for sale but that's one HELLUVADEAL! And no, it's not mine and I don't know the seller.

Just my $.02, stay away from that Chinese junk on eBay. Many on the Turbo Buick boards have tried it and wished they hadn't. If you're not already a member of the Turbo Buick boards, I'd join them as well as this one.

www.turbobuick.com
www.turbobuicks.com
www.t6p.com
www.gnttype.org

HTH and good luck with your car!
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Old 10-28-2008, 12:14 PM
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Hey Sinster... How's it going... Met you down at the Nats a few years ago.

Yea.. that e-bay stuff is bad news. I cut up a perfect ATR downpipe to fit a

terrible set of leaky E-bay GN headers.. Almost brought a tear to my

eye Least it wasn't my car.

Good to see ya~
Scott.
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Old 10-28-2008, 10:55 PM
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The Regal

I do not Want a v6 at all~ I have a buddy that has one built up, and yes i like it, and ive seen plenty run, thats not what im about, i like to stay true to my roots, and run a v-8, i have a regal and not a GN, that is why i bought a regal, and not a GN. I have nothing against the v6, i got a 96 monte with a swapped l67 that runs extremley hard, and i love it, but just not for me and my regal, thanks for all the pointers your all throwing out there for me, im a couple months away from building the TTv8, and i have made my mind up to read up on turbocharging before i do everything, And if you do it right and read up , there shouldnt be any problem the first time i do it, and i dont want to risk spending a g or 2 on a setup from ebay and finding out its cheap meterial. Any more advice anyone has, ill glady accept, and if any1 knows of a great turbo book to suggest let me know, i prefer in depth books, not ones that just skim through it, speaking of im gonna go check out www.penguinputnam.com right now, thanks every1!
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Old 10-29-2008, 05:54 AM
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Nothing wrong with that. I'm in the process of transitioning from the Turbo 6s to LS1 (that will eventually be turbo'd) myself. Did you click the link I posted? It's for a twin turbo LT1 setup that's complete (including the motor).

Even going with a Turbo V8, there's a lot of good info to be had on the turbo Buick boards.
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Old 10-29-2008, 07:19 AM
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First and foremost....I'm not attacking your abilities. How much map (tuning) knowledge do you have with fuel injected motors? Cause a retrofit (fit all) kit may not be too user friendly unless you know all the aspects of tuning a turbo charged engine. I say that because even with my Greddy application specific package....I had a bear of a time tuning the thing. I personally threw myself to the wolves on the learning curve for tuning a turbo charged engine. Thats the only reason I mention. I'm with these guys on the GN motors. I owned a Grand National for a few years and its a great package....ready to rumble.

Guess what I'm saying is....I'd be going with a kit designed specifically for your application...thats been time proven. Otherwise you may end up with a tuning nitemare.

Dave G
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Old 10-29-2008, 07:46 AM
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Reading up on turbo's and fuel injection tuning is a great plan.

The LS1's are the best bet. I think you'll make good power with them and they are becoming cheap enough now to do just that.
You'll have to look on some LS1 based websites for more information but I know you can run a lower compression piston and then keep the stock ECM and tune with HPTuners. (Hptuners.com)
That's what I tune all newer GM obd2 cars here with. You can build up a older small block but I know the LS1 based engines are much better flowing and easier tuned.
I've got alot of details... e-mail me if you'd like more info...
Good luck with the project..
You can get some Regal/GN based info on the V8Swap section of www.turbobuick.com since alot of guys have been changing to LS1 based Turbo engines instead of 3.8L.
~Scott
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Old 10-29-2008, 10:34 AM
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I was considering one of those kits myself. However after doing some checking around it looks like people will open the box and say its all there and give positive feedback.

A lot of people have been complaining about the headers cracking after a few heat cycles and the turbo's going out within a few hundred miles. I'm not saying this kit in particular but the China made turbo kits in general. If your serious about it check out http://www.turbomustangs.com

Jordon
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Old 10-29-2008, 04:42 PM
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Jordon,

There is a way out on the cracked headers. On the LS1's you can use a set of LQ truck manifold. There are a few folks that have done thier turbo set ups this way. I'll try to find the link to the thread on LS1techs site.

I agree. I think the LS would be a great base for a twin turbo set up...in fact...I'm still milling around trying to decide on the twin turbo set up or the Machinetech 8-71 supercharger for the LS. Kind of leaning towards the tt's for overall price (instant fuel savings compared to supercharged......big horsepower.....and cheaper overall kit with a good BOV/fuel upgrade/name brand turbo's). Of coarse....I'll have to fab my own piping. Doubt Banks has a universal kit for my 36.

BTW. That is a real slick white Camaro you have there!

Dave G
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Old 10-30-2008, 01:12 AM
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YuP

Thats A Sick Lt1 seTup, How Much U tHink He NeeDs Out Of iT? Do You Know Where Its LocateD? I Was Thinking About A Lt4 With A stand Alone, Im not Really Sure Yet, ITs so close I sHoulD have my Mind Up~ N yeah ThatS a Sick CamaRo But yEah, Any1 Know Of GoOd BookS let ME knoW!
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Old 10-30-2008, 07:35 AM
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Quote:
BTW. That is a real slick white Camaro you have there!
Thank you... Most guys in my area don't get my car... they are all still into carbs and chrome. I got out of that over 10yrs ago...

I just love the feel of a turbo car. Got hooked with a buddy's Turbo Mustang and a local customer's Single turbo Supra.. THen got into GN's and never looked back.
I do alot of Sy/Ty's and GN's along with other turbo setups. It's fun!

Go on Barns&Noble or Google and search for turbo books / EFI books You'll find what your looking for!
~Scott
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Old 10-30-2008, 07:59 AM
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I would offer a word of caution for anything you read on the internet on turbocharging these days. Unfortuneatly, the Chinese aftermarket has ruined the parts market and the ricer/diesel idiots have ruined the knowledge base. You will find 10 tons of bad information for the one lb of good. I am no turbo expert, but I have built from scratch/junk parts and tuned 4 different setups.

I can tell you that the turbo setup you are looking at is junk and the guys saying a kit will cost over 5K are correct. However, you can build the hardward for a turbo setup pretty cheaply if you get a good deal on parts and you have tools and fab skills to do it. I would stay with a single turbo to keep cost and complexity down. There is no advantage to twins unless you just like them. Based on the power you are wanting to make I would look at a Holset HX40-50. The 40 is a little small for 650HP, and the 55 a little big. However, if you you can stand a little lag the 50 would be better suited all around. There are many variants out there as well as the 55. You will need to do some homework to make sure you get what fits your application best. The reason I mention those is because they are available cheap and easy to rebuild. Another option would be a pair of HY35's which are dirt cheap. They are so cheap and have integral wastegates so it would still be cheap to build.

If you want to spend a little more the Garrett GT series turbos are available for around $1800 and are VERY nice....better than the holsets IMHO, but will cost you.

I also have to agree on the complexity of EFI tuning on a turbo engine. First you need an ECU capable of WB control and good datalogs. You will need larger injectors and FP than factory for any of the setups available as well as a high flow bypass regulator, and a 3 bar MAP sensor (speed density is the only way to tune a turbo engine IMHO). All of this adds up to alot of $$$$.

Other option is to go old school with a carb, but you need to modify or buy one for boost, get EFI FP and bypass regulator, boost control timing, WB datalogger.....the list goes on.

If I had to choose, I would go with the carb for competition and EFI for a real street car(not a weekend street car). I have done both and the carb is just so much easier and cheaper to setup. The EFI is much more tuneable and the computer tuning on the kitchen table is cool.....but oh what a headache you will have learning how to do it all.

I can help you with whatever you decide to do, but plan on spending double you budget and taking twice the time you plan on. If you can live with that, then you can do the turbo setup.
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