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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 08-04-2012, 10:50 AM
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Brian Martin,Freelance adviser
 
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Henry, first off, yes thank you being the VERY first thing he needs to do is move the door around until it fits where he KNOWS it fit. And that is at the very top, he said that is original as he had spliced the quarter below that. When he put the quarter on the original door FIT up there at the top and was level with the quarter. So if he moves the door down far enough for that to fit, it looks like the door will hit the rocker at the bottom, it is THAT far off.

But getting the door down is key to start this, being it looks like the gap is pretty large at the bottom to rocker. But once that is done, you have a repro door skin against a repro quarter at those body lines......there is no way in hell you can tell WHICH is wrong at that point. Not without making a template off the other quarter if it's original to see what is wrong, the quarter or the door. A template can be made of the door too, the good door, then turn that template around and see what you have.

Brian

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Old 08-04-2012, 11:20 AM
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This may not matter in the long haul, you fix what you need to fix to make it right. Especially with the two reproduction panels. As the great philosopher Nike said, "Just do it".

But if you want to figure out just what is wrong here you can make a template off the other quarter and door (if those are still original).

Take a piece of cardboard and hold it up to the edge of the quarter and mark a line down it showing a rough edge of what you need to cut to get the card board to fit up against the edge for a better cut later.



After cutting that rough stuff off, it looks like this.



Hold it against the edge of the quarter in the jamb and trim it until you can get the piece in there and have a very defined top and bottom. In this case at the very bottom near the rocker it is setting on the rocker and right up against the back corner. At the top it is right at the edge of the quarter where the quarter window "scraper" moulding is.



Now a perfect line can be draw up the edge of the quarter onto the cardboard.



And finally, the cardboard is cut right on that line and you have a piece that can be flipped around and used on the other side to see how close it is to the original.



The same can be done with the door, which one is correct?

Brian
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Old 08-04-2012, 11:53 AM
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Your wife is to be commended for her patience with the camera, and oh yeah, nice job Brian.
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Old 08-04-2012, 11:55 AM
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LOL, I am using a tripod. My wife has even more patience than that, she is at a Girl Scout camp with our daughter and 500 other Girl Scouts and has been for the past week. The will be home tomorrow and I can't wait!

Brian
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Old 08-04-2012, 01:14 PM
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Thanks for all the input so far guys. Truth be told I'm really pissed at the car right now so I'm avoiding it. I'm really upset with myself for allowing this problem to happen, but it's easier to take it out on the car

Henry is correct, and I'm quite positive it is the quarter. Here is why:

1. I reskinned the door first with the original quarter on. Looking back at some old pics, it looks as if everything was lined up.

2. I then did the quarter skin. I had the door hung. Why did I not make sure it lined up with the door better? That's all fuzzy. When I was installing the quarter I didn't see what choice I had. I pretty much had to put it down tight against the rocker, which was hard to do. I'm pretty frustrated with myself at this part for not saying 'hm, this doesn't line up to the door well.' In my head I was probably saying 'well, I just must not have the door hung well enough....I'll fix that later!'

3. I had my old body instructor over to help me trouble shoot that door right before I moved to Michigan. We got the door hung on as straight and well as a professional could but we couldn't get the body lines to line up. At that time it was just assumed the quarter was fine. He said about the only way I can see to fix this is put on another quarter skin and try to fit it to the quarter.

4. Now to two weeks ago. I KEEP THE DOOR HANGING so as not to ruin our perfect hang job, and remove the skin. I close door and still I can see the body lines on the original door shell (sans the skin) STILL don't line up to the quarter lines. Not good sign.

5. I test fit the new skin (used a Dynacorn panel and did fit remarkably better than the first door skin I used) but quickly found there really wasn't much adjustment I could do to it. It pretty much HAD to go on one way.

6. Install skin, do a much better job this time around so happy about that but still have same problem.

I think the quarter is sitting just a little high and I'm not seeing a good solution. The tragedy of the situation is I had part of that weld cut back open just not too long ago. Would have been the perfect time to take out the welds on the door jamb and rocker and try to move it down. Now I have the weld all glassed and filled over with three coats of slick sand over it.

Localized surgery: What if I were to strip everything off that weld again back say 2 ft from the door jam, and about 6-8 inches down from the weld. Undo welds on door jamb and rocker. Try to adjust it down and reweld. Or is that just stupid and impossible. I need to get some more pics of up other gaps, like quarter to rocker gap, etc.

I'm also milling around Henry's solution of cutting out the C strip. I just hate to chop up a perfectly good one piece panel...

Last edited by Lizer; 08-04-2012 at 01:20 PM.
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Old 08-04-2012, 02:16 PM
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I am confused, cut what welds and move what down? It looks like the quarter is too low then, wouldn't you want to cut the quarter welds to the rocker and lift it up? I am just talking, it's more complicated than that.

I know how you feel about your dilemma I feel the same way about my convertible top. I am way out of my comfort zone on that and I have stopped and am giving me a little sit and cool down time before I jump on it again.

Brian
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Old 08-04-2012, 02:28 PM
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Lizer,

before you do any of that measure the distance between the top and bottom lines of the left and right quarters and doors. If it's the quarter the distance between the uppers and lowers will be shorter on the right quarter. If you put tape right on the peak of the body line it will help the measurement be accurate enough where a clear discrepancy will jump out, that is of course if the aftermarket quarter has a bodyline that's pretty close in roundness to the original on the driver's side.

So if that's it and you still have the original quarter you can do an awesome open butt weld repair. If not, I would try to use a mini air saw due to the blade being thin so when you cut out the piece you plan on reusing you will have more metal on it. an air saw with a sawzall blade will give you more control for straighter cuts.

you can also cut out your quarter with a spot welder bit for the plugs and and carefully use a cutt off wheel for the welds at the flange up top but you probably won't be able to just loosen the front and bring it down. It would have to be the whole quarter, and you would also have to figure out why it's not going down...wheel house? Flange to rocker ? door jamb opening bend to rocker?

Sometimes the corners of the flange that tucks under just needs to be snipped cause there's not enough room in there for it, or just bend the corners. Sometimes it's the door jamb bend that goes to door gap to rocker gap. Just have to figure out why.

Last edited by tech69; 08-04-2012 at 02:40 PM.
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 08-04-2012, 03:28 PM
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Originally Posted by MARTINSR View Post
I am confused, cut what welds and move what down? It looks like the quarter is too low then, wouldn't you want to cut the quarter welds to the rocker and lift it up? I am just talking, it's more complicated than that.

I know how you feel about your dilemma I feel the same way about my convertible top. I am way out of my comfort zone on that and I have stopped and am giving me a little sit and cool down time before I jump on it again.

Brian
cut the butt weld where the skin meets the top few inches of the original quarter. Then move the quarter down. The quarter needs to go down. If the door is hung correctly so the top body lines meet the top of the quarter, the gap along the rocker is correct. But now the C stripe body lines on the door are lower than the C strip body lines on the quarter, because the entire section of skin that went in may have been too high. I'm not stating this as cold hard fact, only what my own assessment of the situation is based on knowing what and how I did the work and seeing it. Does that make sense? I'm trying to help your understanding more.

I have hundreds, if not almost a thousand pics of this car through its entire restoration process. I have included several here for your additional help.

The first one shows the gap of the rocker and the new quarter. It wasn't remarkably huge but I do remember having to fight it to close it.

The second picture I think it is shows the door hung with the old quarter. Works well.

The third picture is ORIGINAL DOOR AND SKIN with the new quarter on the driver's side. (These pics are old before a lot of body work and primer ever happened). That quarter was installed by a top notch shop and they did a fantastic job. The door gaps and body lines on the driver's side are perfect and they gapped it.

The fourth picture shows the skin cut out so you can visualize what I'm talking about better. See the top of the quarter never moves. Now picture the quarter getting placed in there and possibly not set down to far so the bottom 95% of the quarter near the door jamb sits too high, while the top 5% of the quarter never moved at all so it still sits properly.

I must say it's comforting to know even you guys get frustrated and in over your head on certain things. This really bothers me because I'm better than this, I have a good understanding of this stuff from some classes and following you guys religiously, and I still let it happen this way. And right now, literally the only thing that WAS standing in my way of final blocking and sealing the entire car was merely getting the door jamb and new skin epoxied and blocked.
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Old 08-04-2012, 03:38 PM
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Originally Posted by tech69 View Post
Lizer,

before you do any of that measure the distance between the top and bottom lines of the left and right quarters and doors. If it's the quarter the distance between the uppers and lowers will be shorter on the right quarter. If you put tape right on the peak of the body line it will help the measurement be accurate enough where a clear discrepancy will jump out, that is of course if the aftermarket quarter has a bodyline that's pretty close in roundness to the original on the driver's side.

So if that's it and you still have the original quarter you can do an awesome open butt weld repair. If not, I would try to use a mini air saw due to the blade being thin so when you cut out the piece you plan on reusing you will have more metal on it. an air saw with a sawzall blade will give you more control for straighter cuts.

you can also cut out your quarter with a spot welder bit for the plugs and and carefully use a cutt off wheel for the welds at the flange up top but you probably won't be able to just loosen the front and bring it down. It would have to be the whole quarter, and you would also have to figure out why it's not going down...wheel house? Flange to rocker ? door jamb opening bend to rocker?

Sometimes the corners of the flange that tucks under just needs to be snipped cause there's not enough room in there for it, or just bend the corners. Sometimes it's the door jamb bend that goes to door gap to rocker gap. Just have to figure out why.
I can check those measurements easy enough. The quarter on the drivers side is new, too, but fits well. I will still give some of the door adjustments suggested earlier a try to see how much I can 'minimize' the discrepancies and see if it's something I can live with. And I need to study that area for feasibility in the event I need to knock out the quarter ornament section to fix.
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Old 08-04-2012, 05:24 PM
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Ok, let me get this straight, you hung the quarter splicing it leaving the upper "belt moulding" area alone. At that time you had a door with a new skin on it, and it fit and matched the lines. You put the new quarter on without messing with the door. At THAT time did the top of the door line up? It would have to being the upper section of the quarter wasn't changed and the door wasn't moved. Am I right, at that point with the first door skin and the new quarter installed the top of the door fit, matching the height of the quarter?

Brian
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Old 08-04-2012, 05:33 PM
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Ok, let me get this straight, you hung the quarter splicing it leaving the upper "belt moulding" area alone. At that time you had a door with a new skin on it, and it fit and matched the lines. You put the new quarter on without messing with the door. At THAT time did the top of the door line up? It would have to being the upper section of the quarter wasn't changed and the door wasn't moved. Am I right, at that point with the first door skin and the new quarter installed the top of the door fit, matching the height of the quarter?

Brian
Yes, the top of the door still lined up. The lines on the door were lower than the lines on the skin though. Even now the top of the door will still line up to the top of the quarter, but then the door C stripe lines will be lower than the quarter lines. Which is why the gap between the door and rocker is so large, because the door is lifted up higher than it should be so the door C stripe lines match up with those on the quarter.
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Old 08-04-2012, 06:09 PM
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But didn't you also say something about putting on another skin since the quarter?

Brian
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Old 08-04-2012, 07:24 PM
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I put another skin on the door just a few weeks ago. I kept the door hanging without the skin though, and the body lines of the door frame structure still hung a little lower than the C stripe lines on the quarter.

Henry--I measured both quarter body lines and both were exactly the same right down to the 16" of an inch.
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Old 08-04-2012, 08:58 PM
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But with the old door skin how were they, why did you change the skin? What was the top, and lower body lines like on the old skin?

Brian
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Old 08-04-2012, 09:14 PM
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But with the old door skin how were they, why did you change the skin? What was the top, and lower body lines like on the old skin?

Brian
The old skin was the same....we lined up the top but the bottom lines on the door were a good half inch lower than the quarter lines. At that time we thought the problem was a bad skin and the solution was a new, better skin. Well I installed a new, better skin (and much better than the first skin so I have that going for me) I'm still left with the same issue.

Have you ever considered a career with CSI by the way?
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