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Old 01-15-2012, 10:17 PM
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Two color panels, paint order?

I am going to repaint two body panels on my Ford Aerostar, with base color coat, and then clear coat.
The majority of the panels, front door, and fender is white, and the bottom six inches or so is a gold color, what Ford calls a "Mocha Frost Metallic"
There is a crease, or a style line in the metal, where the color changes.
Here is a picture, taken at night, in the dark.


My plan is to paint white base coat, wait long enough to be able to mask off the white base coat, paint the gold, and then clear coat the whole thing.
Or do I want to paint the gold smaller area first, mask that, and then white, and clear coat it?
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Old 01-15-2012, 10:39 PM
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I would think that gold will cover white better then white will cover gold.
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Old 01-15-2012, 10:58 PM
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I have to tell you, base coat is really touchy, it is VERY easy to mark it or mess it up with the tape. It takes many times to get it down without leaving some kind of mark.

If I were you, I would paint the whole door white, clear it and then mask off the bottom and shoot the color and clear down there. Hardly any more time at all and it will be WAY easier.

Brian
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Old 01-18-2012, 10:19 AM
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bottoms up

Shoot bottom color first let dry good hr. or more then mask nice & tight with automotive masking tape. (it's made for this). Tucking in edges real nice, cover with paper. shoot top unmask bottom asap, tack every thing @ same time clear coat all. hope it helps. The reason i say this is most times the base coat will distroy fresh clear. Clear (if not baked) takes aprox. 72 hrs to cure.
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Old 01-18-2012, 10:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by badawg
Shoot bottom color first let dry good hr. or more then mask nice & tight with automotive masking tape. (it's made for this). Tucking in edges real nice, cover with paper. shoot top unmask bottom asap, tack every thing @ same time clear coat all. hope it helps. The reason i say this is most times the base coat will distroy fresh clear. Clear (if not baked) takes aprox. 72 hrs to cure.
Base coat doesn't attack fresh clear, not unless it is REAL fresh like hours old. What will cause the basecoat it attack the clear is to apply it over clear that has been sanded thin, or applied too thin that is common. It is very common for someone to apply it thin thinking they are going to be putting more on, so why apply so much. They put a coat on and then there are some thin spots that the base solvents penatrate and life the clear wrinkling it. But to just apply base over clear, there shouldn't be a problem. I would wait until the next day before I shot it just because, that all, just because by the odds you are going to be better.

Brian
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Old 01-18-2012, 12:03 PM
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Thanks all, for the advise!
Last night I shot primer on the parts. I am taking an automotive class, at Clackamas Community College. The class in in the evening, from 6:30 PM to 9:30 PM, Tuesday and Wednesday evenings.

I am using PPG DBC for color. The data sheet says I have a 20 to 40 minute time to tape, for two toning. I also have to get it clear coated within 24 hours.

One plan, shoot DBC white, wait 40 minutes, shoot DBC gold, and then clear coat. I could easily run out of time, class is only three hours. I could also reverse the order of the colors, but if I can only get one color on tonight, it will be easier to mask for the gold after the white is applied.

The other plan is to shoot DBC white, and then clear coat it. Next week, scuff sand the bottom of the fender, and door, and mask off the white, and shoot the gold, and the clear coat.

I am using PPG 2042 clear, It's tape time is 5 to 6 hours, or I can bake it, and get the cure time down to 15 or 20 minutes.

I obviously need to talk to the instructor, and his advise. I will put the camera in to the back pack, and hopefully take some pictures of the progress tonight.
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Old 01-18-2012, 12:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanielC
I obviously need to talk to the instructor, and his advise.
That is exactly right.

Brian
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Old 01-19-2012, 06:14 PM
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I got the door and fender painted last night. Here is the door.

and the fender.

The the parts came out pretty good, but there is a few problems. Some dirt, in the clear coat, some areas were dry, and some were a little wet.

On Tuesday, i got the door masked off, and primed. On Wednesday, went with the white, waited about 1/2 hour, lightly taped off the white, and sprayed the gold, and then removed the color masking, and overall painted the parts with clear coat.

I got some really good flow indicators on the bottom of the fender.

and here is another picture of the bottom of the fender.


I can lightly sand and then buff the clear coat, I could ask how much, but that depends on how thick the clear coat is, and you all have no idea of that.

The clear coat gives me a 3 day recoat window. So, if I sand through the clear coat, within the three days, can I just reshoot clear, as long as I do not go through the color base coat?

Also, there is some orange peel on a few spots. Can I sand out the orange peel, and repaint those spots?

Or do you experts have another suggestion on repair of my mistakes.

Learning how to paint can be fun!
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Old 01-19-2012, 11:14 PM
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You DO NOT want to sand the clear thin, that is what I was talking about with the recoat of clears lifting.

Brian
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Old 01-20-2012, 12:03 AM
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I have some pretty bad orange peel in a few spots. My thought was to sand those spots, remove some texture, and re paint the clear, but the thin clear could possibly lift.

Would I be better just spraying more clear on the orange peel spots?.

Are there other options I have not thought of, to repair the orange peel, without going back to primer, color, and clear, or is this my only option?
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Old 01-20-2012, 07:36 AM
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It is sooo hard to make any suggestions when I don't know how thin it is. This is one of the most important parts about painting, putting a uniform "film" over the surface so EVERY SQUARE INCH Is covered exactly the same.

Don't feel back, I know plenty of pros who don't do it properly.

You could just sand it a little bit as to not thin it then apply more clear. But honestly, it's hard to say. If you sand it thin and don't apply the clear real wet or don't use a slow reducer, or shoot it when you have a warm metal temp, ANYTHING so the solvent doesn't soak down, you can get away with it.

Brian
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Old 01-20-2012, 11:58 AM
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Brian,
OK, so lets see if I understand you.
Sand as little as possible, try to leave as thick of a film of clear on the orange peeled area.
Use a fast (cold weather) reducer, it will evaporate faster.
Have the metal warm, it will also force the solvents to evaporate faster.
Do not spray wet. Wait a little longer before the second coat, if needed.
Is all that correct?
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Old 01-20-2012, 10:12 PM
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Yes but there is a balance, you still need to sand the clear and you can't warm things too much and you can't have too fast a reducer. So you are on a little learning curve here. Just don't shoot it real wet and you should be ok.

Brian
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Old 01-21-2012, 12:51 AM
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Brian,
Again, thank you for following me through on this.
I sanded the area with used 400 grit, on a block, literally taking one stroke of the block, and rinsing it. One time, I got a trace of white. There was still a few slight pits, left from the orange peel. It got up to about 48 to 50 degrees today.

Here are some paint particulars.
PPG DBC basecoat, white, mixed 1 to 1 with DT 870 reducer. Sprayed Wednesday night, about 7:30 PM, at CCC, at room temperature. Masked off around 8:00 PM
PPG DBC basecoat, gold mixed 1 to 1 with DT 870 reducer. sprayed around 8.15 PM
Masking for the gold was removed immediately after cleaning spray gun.
PPG DCU 2042 speed clear coat, mixed with DCX 61 hardener. 4 parts DCU, 1 part DCX 61, 1 part DT 870. Sprayed around 8:45 PM.
Here is a picture of the nose of the fender, with the orange peel.


Today, in the garage, I used a propane catalytic radiant heater, the kind about the size of a sunflower blossom, on a 5 gallon propane bottle for heat.
I masked off the nose of the fender, about 1/2 inch away from the sanded areas. There was not much orange peel where the mask lines ended up.
I mixed up a little more of the PPG DCU 2042 speed clear coat, mixed with DCX 61 hardener. 4 parts DCU, 1 part DCX 61, 1 part DT 860 reducer. I actually ended up spraying it wet. I did that this afternoon. Good flow out.
I used a teaspoon to measure out the paint. I ended up with two table spoons of mixed clear coat, and used less than half of that.
I just went out in the garage, and looked at the fender again, but left the battery for the camera on the charger, in the house. I will have pictures tomorrow. The repainted area looks good. No evidence of the paint lifting, but I need to sand the mask lines out, and then buff.

I have sanded and buffed gel coated boats. They are forgiving. You have sometimes .020 to .035 or more gelcoat thickness before you buff through the color.
Any advise on sanding and buffing the tape lines would be appreciated.

I almost forgot, the area on the door with the orange peel is under a piece of molding at the bottom of the window opening, and completely hidden.
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Old 01-21-2012, 02:11 PM
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Ahhh... the nasty re-coat window. It's been a while since I sprayed PPG products. I've used Spies Hecker for years without even one episode of re-coat sensitivity.

I'll make a couple of comments that may help in the future.

Usually, I look at the spray order of the original colors from the factory. On this Aerostar, the gold accent color was probably sprayed first. Then the whole body was sprayed white, followed by clear. Doing it that way requires less masking.

For metallics to match correctly, it's important to have the correct color under them. In this case I probably would have sprayed the whole door white first, then sprayed the gold on the bottom. Even if that required spraying a different sub-color under the gold. The main reason being, masking over the white is less likely to leave a tape track. A mild tape track on a solid color can be removed by polishing... if you get one. But a tape track that affects the lay of the metallic is there forever. The only way to correct it is spray it again.

When dealing with re-coat sensitivity, you can sneak up on the substrate by misting on the new topcoat. Allow extra flash time and expect to spend at least twice as much time getting the panel sprayed. If you know you're going to have sensitivity, give up on getting a wet look in your final coat. Just get enough material on the panel to cut and buff. If you're lucky, you might end up with an acceptable level of orange peel.

Dealing with re-coat sensitivity is like walking on thin ice. You can fall in at any time. This is just one of the many reasons so many painters are thought to be alcoholics
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