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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 06-20-2013, 11:18 AM
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Thanks everyone for putting up with my worries and daft questions

I'm trying hard not to be "that customer"
So I'm trying to educate myself on here before speaking with the guys at the shop

So, again, thank you to everyone that's helping me

I'll try to answer everyone's questions and give some more detail
I'm on my phone right now, so I apologies if I forget a few things

Firstly, I cannot fault the work the guys are doing
It's a very good standard

The engine bay is a little like the e-type jaguars (XK-E's?)
The whole bonnet swings open including the wings and wheel arches making access (and visibility of the body work) very good

The guys are very approachable and are happy for me to turn up and inspect the car

Unfortunately, due to my working, I haven't kept as close an eye on things as I should have
I think I've been too trusting with them

Whilst they're approachable, they never call me for anything other than to say they need some parts or some money

I've no doubt they'll have had to fit and remove the panels numerous times to get the fit correct, but other than that there's been no other disassembly or fitting to do. I stripped the bodytub and chassis completely bare for them

There was a fair amount if rot on the front wings, but they were chopped off and entire new wings fitted
Other than that there was no rot, but there were some pin holes in a few areas

There was no trim or interior or any other work required, just bodywork

The frame needed new outriggers and a front crossmember
No patch work or repair pieces were needed

The panels that had been fitted had been done so correctly, but obviously due to the pressings they needed time spent on them getting the gaps sorted

Nothing needed removing and refitting again

I've had a look through some of my pictures and it's reminded me there was more work than I originally remembered.....but (as a completely newbie with no experience) I still can't understand where the ~700 hours comes from

I think the biggest problem has been managing the customers (my) expectations

I think it's due to me being uneducated and inexperienced in this area
As a result I've let them take control, and now I feel like I've been sucker punched

I've spent over my original plan only to be told were about half way there

I'd like to put it down to bad management from both parties, but I've got a bad taste in my mouth

My project is rolling along and I want to get it finished
How to I regain control over things and get the body and chassis finished without any further shockers?

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  #32 (permalink)  
Old 06-20-2013, 11:27 AM
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Brian Martin,Freelance adviser
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ant_8u View Post
Thanks everyone for putting up with my worries and daft questions

I'm trying hard not to be "that customer"
So I'm trying to educate myself on here before speaking with the guys at the shop

So, again, thank you to everyone that's helping me

I'll try to answer everyone's questions and give some more detail
I'm on my phone right now, so I apologies if I forget a few things

Firstly, I cannot fault the work the guys are doing
It's a very good standard

The engine bay is a little like the e-type jaguars (XK-E's?)
The whole bonnet swings open including the wings and wheel arches making access (and visibility of the body work) very good

The guys are very approachable and are happy for me to turn up and inspect the car

Unfortunately, due to my working, I haven't kept as close an eye on things as I should have
I think I've been too trusting with them

Whilst they're approachable, they never call me for anything other than to say they need some parts or some money

I've no doubt they'll have had to fit and remove the panels numerous times to get the fit correct, but other than that there's been no other disassembly or fitting to do. I stripped the bodytub and chassis completely bare for them

There was a fair amount if rot on the front wings, but they were chopped off and entire new wings fitted
Other than that there was no rot, but there were some pin holes in a few areas

There was no trim or interior or any other work required, just bodywork

The frame needed new outriggers and a front crossmember
No patch work or repair pieces were needed

The panels that had been fitted had been done so correctly, but obviously due to the pressings they needed time spent on them getting the gaps sorted

Nothing needed removing and refitting again

I've had a look through some of my pictures and it's reminded me there was more work than I originally remembered.....but (as a completely newbie with no experience) I still can't understand where the ~700 hours comes from

I think the biggest problem has been managing the customers (my) expectations

I think it's due to me being uneducated and inexperienced in this area
As a result I've let them take control, and now I feel like I've been sucker punched

I've spent over my original plan only to be told were about half way there

I'd like to put it down to bad management from both parties, but I've got a bad taste in my mouth

My project is rolling along and I want to get it finished
How to I regain control over things and get the body and chassis finished without any further shockers?
Tell them you are out of money and you need to know EVERYTHING done to the car, ANY updates or you won't be able to pay them.

Brian
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old 06-20-2013, 11:32 AM
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Sorry Brian, it is a difficult situation, I feel for the OP, he doesn't know either and at the end of the day, that is the fault of the shop. The shop should keep his customer informed about problems, changes in time lines, anything that effects his customer's vehicle.

We just don't know, what we do know is that the customer (the OP) doesn't understand and is concerned. With the time that the shop has had the vehicle I would question it as well. The difference between you, I, all the other people that are in the trade or have experience and the OP is exactly that, we have experience. We know what it takes to disassemble a vehicle repair all those little critical parts (ie. John and his 53 Chevy convertible) they all take time. Your right in saying that a vehicle needs to be thoroughly inspected before work begins, deposits are given etc. We don't even know if that happened. We've all run into the car that looks great...we get into it and the frame is bent, or the rusted, we take out the interior and what looked good from underneath is pure rot when the carpet is removed.

Again, I'm not taking sides...I/we just don't know...hopefully we can arm the OP with enough questions for the shop where his car is at so that he can be satisfied that everything is moving in the right direction...or take a different action.

Ray
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old 06-20-2013, 11:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BarryK View Post
We know too little, did you see the engine compartment, needs stripping to me and even if you don't I could see a full day of hand-sanding and band aids before spraying a primer and re-sanding again.
We have not seen the jambs, the car may be small but odds and ends like the above can add a lot of hours.
Also Note all the different primers on the car, any shop that put out nice work, show or not is going to sand all that primer off and note the front of hood area by lights, a full size Cadillac would be faster.
Are they readjusting gaps??
The bonnet has to come off to do underneath right, doors off? deck lid off?
There is a whole lot of work to do here, besides just scuff and paint.
I can see where they are looking pretty fair in hour guess at this point.
if I read his post correctly, they already primed it, and it is ready for blocking and paint. sorry, that would mean the jams and underhood are already in primer from the shop as he brought them a media blasted car.
240+ hours is way way to much. to block out primer and spray a single stage paint, and wet sand that.
It better be a national show winner for what he has in it. 27-34k in body shop rust/rot free car that small. single stage paint, not fancy peril or candy not even b/c c/c
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  #35 (permalink)  
Old 06-20-2013, 11:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ant_8u View Post
Thanks everyone for putting up with my worries and daft questions

I'm trying hard not to be "that customer"
So I'm trying to educate myself on here before speaking with the guys at the shop

So, again, thank you to everyone that's helping me

I'll try to answer everyone's questions and give some more detail
I'm on my phone right now, so I apologies if I forget a few things

Firstly, I cannot fault the work the guys are doing
It's a very good standard

The engine bay is a little like the e-type jaguars (XK-E's?)
The whole bonnet swings open including the wings and wheel arches making access (and visibility of the body work) very good

The guys are very approachable and are happy for me to turn up and inspect the car

Unfortunately, due to my working, I haven't kept as close an eye on things as I should have
I think I've been too trusting with them

Whilst they're approachable, they never call me for anything other than to say they need some parts or some money

I've no doubt they'll have had to fit and remove the panels numerous times to get the fit correct, but other than that there's been no other disassembly or fitting to do. I stripped the bodytub and chassis completely bare for them

There was a fair amount if rot on the front wings, but they were chopped off and entire new wings fitted
Other than that there was no rot, but there were some pin holes in a few areas

There was no trim or interior or any other work required, just bodywork

The frame needed new outriggers and a front crossmember
No patch work or repair pieces were needed

The panels that had been fitted had been done so correctly, but obviously due to the pressings they needed time spent on them getting the gaps sorted

Nothing needed removing and refitting again

I've had a look through some of my pictures and it's reminded me there was more work than I originally remembered.....but (as a completely newbie with no experience) I still can't understand where the ~700 hours comes from

I think the biggest problem has been managing the customers (my) expectations

I think it's due to me being uneducated and inexperienced in this area
As a result I've let them take control, and now I feel like I've been sucker punched

I've spent over my original plan only to be told were about half way there

I'd like to put it down to bad management from both parties, but I've got a bad taste in my mouth

My project is rolling along and I want to get it finished
How to I regain control over things and get the body and chassis finished without any further shockers?
Thank you so much for your honesty...and I hope you don't mind but I've been trying to read your posts with a British accent in my mind...LOL...so I can better get a grip on the situation.

Before I would tell them that your out of money, get an explanation...it's your car, your right.

What is disturbing is that you only get called if they need money...for parts...are these parts not part of the original plan?

I've done vehicles that where without a doubt larger than your car...I have put in well over 1,000 hours in a vehicle in Paint and Body alone. Little surprises like pin holes can mean a multitude of hours...pinholes generally mean rust...and could be rusted panels with extremely thin sheet metal. This is where the shop needs to step in, call you, explain so that you are at ease and in control.
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old 06-20-2013, 12:03 PM
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Brian Martin,Freelance adviser
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 69 widetrack View Post
Thank you so much for your honesty...and I hope you don't mind but I've been trying to read your posts with a British accent in my mind...LOL...so I can better get a grip on the situation.

Before I would tell them that your out of money, get an explanation...it's your car, your right.

What is disturbing is that you only get called if they need money...for parts...are these parts not part of the original plan?

I've done vehicles that where without a doubt larger than your car...I have put in well over 1,000 hours in a vehicle in Paint and Body alone. Little surprises like pin holes can mean a multitude of hours...pinholes generally mean rust...and could be rusted panels with extremely thin sheet metal. This is where the shop needs to step in, call you, explain so that you are at ease and in control.
Oh hell yeah, on a main arena show car, this is a SS paint DRIVER!

Brian
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  #37 (permalink)  
Old 06-20-2013, 12:06 PM
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Don't know Brian...I prep my SS substrate for paint the same way I prep my BC/CC...Don't think that year of Triumph came with BC/CC.

Ray
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old 06-20-2013, 12:13 PM
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Brian Martin,Freelance adviser
 
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I'm with you Ray believe me, but the guy calls it a "driver". I wouldn't think he expects the kind of near perfection (there is no such thing as "perfection") so why would it be built that way? The difference from a VERY nice driver and a "show car" requiring that thousand hours is a LOT of time and money!

Brian
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old 06-20-2013, 12:23 PM
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That's just it Brian, we don't know...I've done a number of vehicles that I've put in over 1,000 hours in Paint and Body...They have gone to shows yes, they drove them there...the last one was about 400 miles one way to a show in New York. I agree, 1,000 hours is a lot of time and money...but, as you mentioned, nothing is perfect and I could have put more time into it to get closer to that "perfect".

Ray
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  #40 (permalink)  
Old 06-20-2013, 12:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gearheadslife View Post
if I read his post correctly, they already primed it, and it is ready for blocking and paint. sorry, that would mean the jams and underhood are already in primer from the shop as he brought them a media blasted car.
240+ hours is way way to much. to block out primer and spray a single stage paint, and wet sand that.
It better be a national show winner for what he has in it. 27-34k in body shop rust/rot free car that small. single stage paint, not fancy peril or candy not even b/c c/c
Read it how you want but pictures show different and since you are not a painter, I'm sure it looks fine to you but it would look different to a shop.
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  #41 (permalink)  
Old 06-20-2013, 12:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 69 widetrack View Post
That's just it Brian, we don't know...I've done a number of vehicles that I've put in over 1,000 hours in Paint and Body...They have gone to shows yes, they drove them there...the last one was about 400 miles one way to a show in New York. I agree, 1,000 hours is a lot of time and money...but, as you mentioned, nothing is perfect and I could have put more time into it to get closer to that "perfect".

Ray
they are say'n 240+ hours more, cars already in primer.
even if you blow through 80 hours blocking the primer that's 2 weeks of blocking primer on a tiny car. then spray the ss paint I'll be crazy and say 20 hours 4 times the time needed
then another 80 hours to wet sand the color
all three with way over the needed time to block,spray,wet sand.
is still 180 hours
they are quoting it needing 240 to 320 hours.
that's 60 to 140 more than my generous time table.
for a car this size
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  #42 (permalink)  
Old 06-20-2013, 12:55 PM
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Originally Posted by gearheadslife View Post
they are say'n 240+ hours more, cars already in primer.
even if you blow through 80 hours blocking the primer that's 2 weeks of blocking primer on a tiny car. then spray the ss paint I'll be crazy and say 20 hours 4 times the time needed
then another 80 hours to wet sand the color
all three with way over the needed time to block,spray,wet sand.
is still 180 hours
they are quoting it needing 240 to 320 hours.
that's 60 to 140 more than my generous time table.
for a car this size
I'm not saying your wrong, I'm not saying your right...what I am saying is we don't know what is happening...How, many times do you prime and block a car before you are ready to apply paint...don't care if it's pearl, BC/CC, single stage. How many times would be the right number of times to block sand and re prime and so on for YOU to get a car ready for paint?

For me, my answer is how ever many it takes to get it straight.

Sometimes when we actually do things we appreciate much more what it takes to get it done.
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  #43 (permalink)  
Old 06-20-2013, 01:14 PM
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Originally Posted by 69 widetrack View Post
I'm not saying your wrong, I'm not saying your right...what I am saying is we don't know what is happening...How, many times do you prime and block a car before you are ready to apply paint...don't care if it's pearl, BC/CC, single stage. How many times would be the right number of times to block sand and re prime and so on for YOU to get a car ready for paint?

For me, my answer is how ever many it takes to get it straight.

Sometimes when we actually do things we appreciate much more what it takes to get it done.
get that..
I'd hope it was mostly straight when they put the primer in the cup
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  #44 (permalink)  
Old 06-20-2013, 01:19 PM
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And in there lies the difference between hope and knowing.

Ray
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Old 06-20-2013, 04:18 PM
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Guys

I had no idea I was going to get this many reply, and all of them genuinely helpful too
I'm truly thankful for that

I was expecting to get laughed at

Whilst I have no experience of bodywork I can understand the theory behind it.....I've done 5 minute jobs around the house, and they never take 5 minutes.....I've turned a weekend job in the bathroom into a month long project, so I understand it can happen, I just didn't expect it on this scale

I can't change what's been done, but would like to regain control of the future

If I sit down with the guys what questions should I ask them?
What info would you tell your clients?

I'd like to be confident I'm being charged for the hours they put in, rather than them just billing me to cover their fixed business costs


Oh, regarding them phoning asking for parts, it's just things like window glass and spare wheel brackets, etc... (Stuff I forgot basically)
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