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Old 05-06-2005, 11:53 AM
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Undercoating....Friend or Foe?

I have always had issue with the use of undercoating.I've seen some guys spray it on any thing under a car or truck as if it were a miracle elixer.I kinda always felt that it was just a coverup and worse yet a mask for some more serious problems that you would be prevented from seeing until it was too late.
I must say that I have used it before on areas under a truck,but only in areas that were pristine.In fact in 1986 I bought a Chevy pickup that was rustproofed with the "Rusty Jones" stuff.Still have the truck and the underside has held up very well.This stuff seems not as thick as common undercoating and much more uniform.
Soon I will be sandblasting and painting a car trailer and truck chassis.Going with an Epoxy primer.Still deciding on what to topcoat with.Would undercoating or rustproofing be wise to use at any point in this process.Is there any good use for this stuff on underside sheetmetal?What would you consider to be the most bullet proof process for finishing these areas for a daily driver?

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Old 05-06-2005, 01:32 PM
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I've seen much cleaner cars without undercoating, it will hold in any moisture and rot out the floor out. I say no
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Old 05-06-2005, 04:30 PM
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Move to Kalifornia. Not an issue here!
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Old 05-06-2005, 04:45 PM
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move to the middle of the desert. not an issue there either. No civilization for 50 miles will mean you'll get well aquainted with that nice rod or boring minivan of yours, whichever you drive on that day.
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Old 05-06-2005, 07:45 PM
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my buddy bought a supercab ford ranger 4 x 4 new in feb 86, had it dealer undercoated or rust proofed. looks undercoated, everything is rusty, body frame ect. it has 97k on it.




Nebraska Kicked it's ***. it has lom mi on it. he worked outa town and truck sat home.........
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Old 05-06-2005, 08:04 PM
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It's a "coating" to prevent crud from "sticking" to the fenders and such.
Basically a "gimmick" by the dealers to sell you someting else.It dosen't seal up the crack's and crevasse's so the salt and water STILL get's in.
If you really want protection of sorts, I'd go with a QUALITY bed liner product on the SHEET METAL undersides. The frame and such should receive a GOOD epoxy,painting (sheet metal too) and that will last your lifetime with the vehicle.
Powdercoat is another alternative for the frame and such and IF done RIGHT,will last too.
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Old 05-06-2005, 10:54 PM
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If I go with the epoxy primer what do you propose I go with as a topcoat?Should the frame be treated differently than the underside sheetmetal?Still would like to here some opinions on the undercoating/rustproofing thing.
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Old 05-07-2005, 06:53 AM
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I agree with Bee, a quality bedliner product carefully applied will help keep the salty water out of the seams and pockets. The cheaper "undercoating" probably does help for awhile, but if it doesn't adhere to every nook and cranny that's where the trouble starts.

Another good alternative if you have the discipline is just to thoroughly wash the undersides every week or two all winter. I have seen guys with 15-20 year old vehicles that did this.. it helps.

But in the states that salt, there is no miracle cure. Rust will eventually get steel if it lives long enough. We're just slowing it down.
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Old 05-07-2005, 09:16 AM
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Hey BarryK ,if you have read this thread I would sure appreciate your thoughts!
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Old 05-08-2005, 08:52 AM
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Lots of salt on the roads here in Vermont and I've heard of damn near everything.
The old Volvos used Ziebart coatings, worked well, but they're gone and so is Rusty Jones. I have my cars undercoated with hot Bar and Chain oil every fall- it's sticky and helps quite a bit. Makes a godawfull mess, though- I let the car drip in THEIR parking lot for a day before driving it home. A buddy brushes grease on the underside of his '46 Dodge truck- takes him a day to do every five years or so, but does a good job. And if you want to go granola, hot lanolin, beeswax, and turpentine supposedly does the trick.
Wurth supposedly makes a good system, but I haven't found much info or a local source for the stuff. 3M also makes a grease type undercoater and application tools, but can't remember the product name.
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Old 05-08-2005, 09:51 AM
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Undercoat is fine and dandy until you have to repair where it is sprayed on.

I would never use it on any of my personal vehicles. I have used it in collision repair. Some cars have it on the underside wheter it be from factory or dealer and I try to make them look as before the accident.

If I were to see undercoat on a reconditioned vehicle, I would guess that the restorer was hiding something. I know the spray on bedliners have the same looking finish but they have a catalyst and are very durable. Undercoat can be destroyed by a power washer.

Again the choice is yours but my opinion is no, don't use undercoat.

Also, why go through the process of using high quality primers with a catalyst to finish with a product that does not use a catalyst?
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Old 05-08-2005, 10:31 AM
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Rust proofing

Use 2 wet coats of epoxy..I use SPI 6600 series with an epoxy topcoat on chassis and underside areas..

Use the bedliner in the wheel well areas..after painting as a topcoat only in those places.."rock and noise protection"

Make sure that there are no areas where moisture can accumulate and be trapped..this is a big problem in causing rust and body rot..

Check here for materials... Once having done all this doing a maintenance program and using a pressure washer wash that thing on the underside to remove accumulated dirt and road salts and you should get a good service..

OMT
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Old 05-08-2005, 01:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OneMoreTime
Make sure that there are no areas where moisture can accumulate and be trapped..this is a big problem in causing rust and body rot..
OMT
On this point, after spraying your epoxy what are your thoughts on using a high-density closed cell foam to fill deep body cavities (potential rust areas)? I'm thinking mainly of the pockets behind the doors on my '47 Ford. They run from the top of the floorboards down to the running boards (area maybe 18" long x 6" wide x 10" high).

Russ
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Old 05-08-2005, 02:35 PM
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Drill holes

Quote:
Originally Posted by S10xGN
On this point, after spraying your epoxy what are your thoughts on using a high-density closed cell foam to fill deep body cavities (potential rust areas)? I'm thinking mainly of the pockets behind the doors on my '47 Ford. They run from the top of the floorboards down to the running boards (area maybe 18" long x 6" wide x 10" high).

Russ
I am the guy who drills holes in areas where mositure can accumulate so if any should happen to find its way in there it can drain out..the interior of those "pockets" inside the rockers and any other enclosed spaces are great places for rust to hide and do its dirty work unseen to the owner until a rust spot rears its ugly head on your fender or body..

Perhaps you can get some holes drilled/cut in that area so they are not seen from the outside..I would not do anything that may allow for the accumulation of any moisture..That is just my idea..

Look at one of the 80's Gm pickups and you will see the rust come out over the rear fenders at the rear corners of the cab and other places where dirt and moisture accumulate..

Now this is a tough one..if you can get in there with some rust fixative like rust mort and then use something like "Cosmoline" which is that sticky nasty greasy stuff we use to preserve Military equipment to coat the insides then you have a fighting chance to take care of the rust..

I am not sure where one can get some cosmoline but it would be worth a search..Maybe there is some other kinds of material along that line that could be employed..

My thought on the matter..

OMT

Material:Cosmoline - a rust and corrosion inhibitor in grease form
Quantity:12 oz
Containerlastic wide-mouth jar

Notes:

Made to military specifications

May be brushed directly onto metal at room temperature or softened in a hot water bath for easier application or for dipping small parts

Can be removed with very hot water, petroleum or chlorinated solvents like Insta-clean (334-393)

Intended for use when long-term storage of a metal item is necessary

Try this link
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Last edited by OneMoreTime; 05-08-2005 at 02:45 PM. Reason: Found some cosmoline
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Old 05-09-2005, 12:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OneMoreTime
I am the guy who drills holes in areas where mositure can accumulate so if any should happen to find its way in there it can drain out..the interior of those "pockets" inside the rockers and any other enclosed spaces are great places for rust to hide and do its dirty work unseen to the owner until a rust spot rears its ugly head on your fender or body..
I hear what you're saying, BUT! What if you seal the openings so water cannot get in in the first place? Think "boat" here for a minute, if the body tub is completely sealed (like the boat), water will have no way to get in. I'm really not to "hep" on having water passing through any part of the body on my project. I do realize the doors will need a different approach...

Russ
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