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Old 02-07-2007, 03:19 PM
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Underslung suspension

Any info -pictures of the underslung suspension for use on 25 modelT buildup.. Plus and minius for this type system?? Some great ideas and pictures from pharochris have benn posted but have not seen more... You still out there man... You have GREAT car... Thanks

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Old 02-07-2007, 03:33 PM
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I have a feeling you are talking about a quarter elliptic spring setup, is this it?
There was a car shown in several forums and a magazine ir two some time ago which had quarter elliptics in the front mounted with frame below the axle with very little ground clearance. I though it looked dangerous the firat time I saw it and was told the car had been wrecked, luckily no one killed but badly broken. Why? Frame came in contact with roadway at speed and stopped real quick which crumpled and catapulted the car like a gymnast doing a forward flip, good points for a gymnast, BAD for a CAR & DRIVER.
Scrub line was violated and payment came due. Lucky most ratrods with 1-2 inches of ground clearance only see fairgrounds parking lot use or we'd hear more of this. Automotive magazines do not usually report these "accidents" for some reason. Awareness of basic safety principles of construction should be first in their "journalistic" minds not bad vibes from a wreck scene.
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Old 02-07-2007, 05:05 PM
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Not sure if this is the car Pasadena is talking about but it IS underslung and it DOES appear to violate the scrub line (at list from this angle).

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Old 02-07-2007, 06:43 PM
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underslung suspension

Thanks!! I have seen other types where axel is between spring and frame,or would be mounted under the spring in picture posted. Looking to build frame for 25 t coupe and just looking at different ways of doing things, but seem some things my be better not done??
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Old 02-07-2007, 07:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 41 agen
... but seem some things my be better not done??
I wouldn't rule out an underslung chassis, just build it so the scrub line will keep you out of trouble in the event of a tire failure.
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Old 02-07-2007, 09:57 PM
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The car pictured the entire frame is flipped over.

The springs have been restacked to work in this fashion. Just take them apart and restack on the opposite side of the main leaf.

I think it is a 25 Dodge. It appeared in a magazine a few months ago.

The scrub radius is a thing not understood 80 years ago. Kind of remind ya of those low riders with the tiny wheels stuck outside the fenders, huh?
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Old 02-10-2007, 11:31 AM
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25 Dodge, Dec 2006 Hot Rod Magazine, I think.

Model T suspension lateral buggy springs are not conducive to frame flipping.
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Old 02-10-2007, 12:14 PM
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Here is another pic of that underslung chassis. It uses semi elliptical springs.

Manufacturers knew all about scrub line back then. Just remeber that when those old cars were built they had 20 inch or bigger wheels on them. Lots of ground clearance if they had a flat or blew a tire.

If you are looking for something different quarter elliptical front suspensions have been around for a long time and were used quite a bit for dirt track racing in the 30's. The suspension was also used by Chevy and others for awhile back in the 20's. Here are a couple of pics of quarter elliptical front suspensions and they even have front brakes. Also a pic of a Chevy chassis drawing.
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Old 02-10-2007, 01:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by home brew
Here is another pic of that underslung chassis. It uses semi elliptical springs.

Manufacturers knew all about scrub line back then. Just remeber that when those old cars were built they had 20 inch or bigger wheels on them. Lots of ground clearance if they had a flat or blew a tire.

If you are looking for something different quarter elliptical front suspensions have been around for a long time and were used quite a bit for dirt track racing in the 30's. The suspension was also used by Chevy and others for awhile back in the 20's. Here are a couple of pics of quarter elliptical front suspensions and they even have front brakes. Also a pic of a Chevy chassis drawing.

The first two cars pictured, brown and red, and the drawing, are quarter-eliptical springs.

The drawing shows quarter-eliptical springs front and rear.

The white 25 Dodge has semi-eliptical springs front and rear.

edited= In the case of the cross spring Model As and Deuces, etc. front and rear, that is actually a double quarter-eliptical made in one piece. It mounts solidly on the frame in the center of the spring stack, and the axle is sprung using only one end for each suspension travel, right and left.

Like the three set ups indicated in the previous post, the stack end is solid and the free end supports only one suspension travel. This is 2 parallel quarter-elipticals as shown, or like the Ford set up "end to end" made as one piece, both styles are quarter-eliptical.

The semi-eliptical suspends each axle end with "double end" (leaves going both ways) spring flex.

Last edited by xntrik; 02-10-2007 at 01:30 PM.
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Old 02-10-2007, 04:24 PM
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What interested me about the Chevy drawings is that there does not seem to be any radius rods attaching from the axle to the frame - just the springs. How did they triangulate the front suspension? Is the angle of the spring to the frame enough to act as both springs and radius rods? Is the spring mounted that solid to the axle and the frame to act as triangulation and stop lateral movement? Here is a pic of the front suspension on a 23 Chevy. Anybody have any answers?
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Old 02-10-2007, 08:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by home brew
What interested me about the Chevy drawings is that there does not seem to be any radius rods attaching from the axle to the frame - just the springs. How did they triangulate the front suspension? Is the angle of the spring to the frame enough to act as both springs and radius rods? Is the spring mounted that solid to the axle and the frame to act as triangulation and stop lateral movement? Here is a pic of the front suspension on a 23 Chevy. Anybody have any answers?
Yep, it is solid enough, that is all there is to it. How's that for K.I.S.S.??

The frame end is solid mounted, the axle end is solid mounted. The spring springs just like a springs are suppose to spring. Ain't that springy??

Big question is..... what about shocks?

On that brown car.... look at those old Houdais shocks. ouch.

Last edited by xntrik; 02-10-2007 at 08:44 PM.
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Old 02-10-2007, 10:10 PM
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That is not a Houdais shock but a Houdaille shock. They do work very well if they are in good shape but they take a long time to rebuild well. Sometimes all they need is some fluid to get them working great.
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Old 02-12-2007, 03:10 PM
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underslung suspension

Was there any advantage to using this system other than the ride height or just to be different?? Not something you see very much.. How about raising frame perch higher on front end of reg sucide front to get frame lower... Thanks
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Old 02-12-2007, 06:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 41 agen
Was there any advantage to using this system other than the ride height or just to be different?? Not something you see very much.. How about raising frame perch higher on front end of reg sucide front to get frame lower... Thanks
Simplicity. No shackles to wear, only minor binding by twisting the springs on one wheel.
Higher frame mount on cross leaf lowers front end.
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Old 02-13-2007, 10:42 AM
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I've never ridden in one but apparently they handle like crazy. That is why they were used in dirt track racing in the 20's and 30's. There are a lot of quarter elliptical setups out there - they are just hidden from view. Here is a link to a Greening roadster under construction that uses quarter elliptical front suspension. It will be totally hidden. Check out the completed section of the website as at least two of those cars use that suspension as well.

http://www.greeningautocompany.com/i...ojects/current

Posies uses them on some of their rides as well:

http://www.rodandcustommagazine.com/...odel_a_pickup/

http://www.posiesrodsandcustoms.com/...s/thunderroad/

Here is another link to the Posies site. Their system uses special shackles which are designed around a swivel joint that allows up to 30 degrees of rotation between the spring and axle, virtually eliminating any binding of the spring.

http://www.posiesrodsandcustoms.com/...ured_products/

http://www.posiesrodsandcustoms.com/...duct-releases/
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