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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 07-07-2007, 09:17 PM
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Abby, don't hose that black basecoat on heavy, all you need is medium wet coats and when it flashes it will level right out. Spraying basecoat isn't like the acrylic enamels you've sprayed in the past, you're not looking for smooth flowing coats when spraying base-instead you just want medium wet coats. People often times make the mistake of spraying the base on to wet and end up having trapped solvents-especially with black. So, shoot each coat of base on just medium wet and let it flash 30 minutes or more between coats.
The clear needs to go on wet and smooth from the first coat to the last, I strive for a thin but wet first coat then one or two more full wet coats.

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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 07-07-2007, 10:48 PM
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I will sure try do do as you state but when you have no clue it's hard. I am looking for just to cover it all, right? not wet but just to cover. Spray lightly in one, direction back and forth, then again at a 45 deg. angle all over. That should cover it all. Flash it for about 30-45 minutes, then cover at opposite direction from previous. Here is a graphic of what I'm trying to explain: http://55chevy210.homeip.net/dodge/1...t_coverage.JPG

Maybe I'm being too critical but I already screwed this up once and it's been pretty painful recovering from it.

I also just finished blocking the second coat of primer. It looks pretty smooth but not perfect. There is certainly "zero" popping and it's been on for well over 5 hours. Nothing deep in the line of scratches but it is also NOT like a shiny gray color. It's smooth and flat - no bumps I can see or feel. It also varies in shininess, for lack of a better word. I see shiney and dull in the same lines. Not sure how to explain it. Here is a picture of what I'm talking about: http://55chevy210.homeip.net/dodge/1...mer_look_1.JPG -and- http://55chevy210.homeip.net/dodge/1...mer_look_2.JPG

It's just not all even in the way it looks. Will it matter at all? Will the black fill in what I can see but not feel? I look at it under a magnifying glass and it just looks like a different color in the scratch line. I tried to take a picture of it but my camera won't focus close up.

I need to remember that I do NOT want to mix a 4:1 ratio on the paint this time. I need to mix 4 oz. paint and about 1/2 to 3/4 oz reducer (PPG DT895) and the temp here is in the 90's with high humidity. I have no choice but to use this reducer because I have no other and the store is closed. Truck needs to deliver Monday morning.

Oh, and the gun in made in Germany by Optima (Oberflachentechnik) for Motor Guard Corporation / Magna Products, Manteca, CA.
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Old 07-07-2007, 11:56 PM
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If you're shooting DBC you'll want to mix it 1-1 basically reduce the paint 100%. There's really no need for all the angled gun movements if the color is basic black, you'd sometimes want to criss cross your pattern if this was a metalic but if it's a solid black there's really no need. You want medium wet coats-a wet look with some texture is OK but you don't want to apply it so wet that she looks like glass. The reasoning behind this is each coat needs to flash off and purge the excess solvents before the next coat is applied, when the paint is applied to heavy sometimes it flashes without purging the excess solvents and they become trapped-later to come back out through your clear or in really bad situations it can seperate the bond between the base and clear-hope this makes sense. Don't over think this and worry to much about the color application just get it covered with some medium wet coats and let it set and flash off awhile before the clear goes on. Make sure you've got some good lightling so you can look at the light reflection to guage the wetness of the clear as it's being applied. The stripes in your primer in the pics looks like just a pattern from how it was sprayed-what you would call tigerstripes from how it was sprayed or maybe the primer was curing very fast while it was being applied. Have you been using a guidecoat over the primer for sanding?-This shows you if there's any missed areas or scratches or low ares. Also something to consider, with black it is very easy to seperate the painting in a few sessions which makes doing a complete repaint much more manageable- as an exmple you could do the cab and front one day and the bed the next day or later (smaller area to spray in one session makes for an easier job).
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Old 07-08-2007, 12:07 AM
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You are right. The lines are from spraying. I was having issues with the spray and coverage. I just can't seem to get the air/material mix right. I put the jitterbug and 600 wet to it again to smooth out a couple low spots.
Question is: is it important enough to be concerned with? I do have 100% coverage. I did not use a guide coat. I forgot. That's why I'm in the IT business and not auto body. There is no body work under any of this primer so anything high/low will not be very pronounced. I know it doesn't have to be with black but at this point in my stupid effort to fix this all I want is shine and no chemical popping.

I hate to keep this going and nobody wants to see this effort over more than I do. But, by medium coat, do you mean just get it covered and don't try to make it look wet or shiny appearance when dry? Or should it be dull when I get done? I can always block it down if it's wrong after I shoot it. I did that with the tailgate and it turned out better than the rest of the truck.

I KNOW that even touching up any paint on my new Dakota is not going to be simple by any means and I hope to never have to have it done. That color it the prettiest black I've ever seen. Dodge calls it: Black Crystal. It has a lot of metallic in it and looks pretty deep.

It's 2:21 AM and I have to get up and paint tomorrow morning.

Oh, and I went back to read this thread and realized I said the paint was split 4:1 - that is for the primer -AND- clear. The paint is 1:0.5 up to 1:1. I believe I did split that 1:1 when I first shot it but may not have mixed it right or something. It popped pretty bad. The clear popped even worse or drew more solvent fromthe paint or something. I need to not have so much popping in either one though. My plans are to shoot a medium coat (if I can figure out exactly what that is) this morning, wait about 45 minutes then shoot another medium coat. Wait a couple hours then wet sand with 1200 if necessary. Then shoot clear, light, and wet if I can. Sound right?

Last edited by Abby.Normal; 07-08-2007 at 09:14 AM.
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Old 07-08-2007, 09:11 AM
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[QUOTE=Abby.Normal]
I hate to keep this going and nobody wants to see this effort over more than I do. But, by medium coat, do you mean just get it covered and don't try to make it look wet or shiny appearance when dry? Or should it be dull when I get done? I can always block it down if it's wrong after I shoot it. I did that with the tailgate and it turned out better than the rest of the truck.

QUOTE]

Yeah, the paint will look wet but not totally slick and smooth, then it will flash off and dull out and level out nice and smooth, it will look more like satin black before you clear it-the gloss comes from the clear. You should do well with that ultra slow reducer. Good luck.
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Old 07-08-2007, 11:39 AM
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I just got done spraying the first coat of paint. It went on nice except for a couple places I can sand out. Looks like paint drips. It also looks like it already may be popping. I didn't spray on dark wet coat but I did lay it down to cover roughly 90-95% It may be 100% but it 's not on too thick. I can still see a little gray. I wonder if there is something wrong with the paint. Why does it seem to be popping already? I made certain I mixed a 1:1 like the directions state. Could it be the humidity? I start sweating when I enter the garage because it's so humid.

I ran a test with some white I had that someone gave me a couple years ago. The testing worked very nice with that. Thinking of painting my shed. I'm not going to show that either. No popping or anything in the test. I also read on the handle of my gun during the testing that the air pressure needs to be MAX. 55 PSI. Now I'm wondering if I could get any more stupid. Can't read, can't see sh**, can't remember sh**, and now I find out I can't paint after 6.5 years restoring a 55 Chevy that is now a show car for the new owners. Getting old fast and going down hill even faster.

Last edited by Abby.Normal; 07-08-2007 at 11:57 AM.
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Old 07-08-2007, 12:20 PM
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Knock down those defects with some sandpaper and apply another coat, it sounds like you're applying just right. The next coat will look better. Those spots you're seeing might be a variety of things-could be contamination from your airsupply, could be moisture in the air supply. But regardless rock on and apply another coat and see how she looks. If the next coat looks OK you should move on to clear IMO
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 07-08-2007, 12:38 PM
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I just sprayed on the 2nd. coat and the color darkened up a lot. I still have enough material in the gun for yet a 3rd. complete coat. Just set the timer to 45 minutes. I will knock them down with 1200 before I squirt on the clear if that will be OK. If you can, and are monitoring my progress (if you want to call it that) let me know if that will work or should I knock the spots out now then shoot another coat of black "before" I spray the clear.

Also, how long do I need to wait before I apply clear, then the 2nd. coat of clear, and maybe 3rd. or clear?

I just looked at it real close and it does need a 3rd. coat of color. Some areas are lighter than others. The 3rd. should get it all though. And those spots are definitely paint drips. I may have the fluid needle guide but too loose. An extra 1/4 turn on it should fix that.

3:45PM CST - I knocked down those spots most of the way with 1000 dry. I'm afraid to take them down any further or I may bring out primer. Still have 16 minutes on the timer for the 3rd. coat. All still looks good and no popping as of yet. They were caused by a maladjusted needle guide nut not allowing the needle to settle fast enough to the close position.

4:45PM CST - I just sprayed on the first of potentially many coats of clear. Used 7.5 oz of material (6 oz. clear and 1.5 oz. activator). Got complete coverage but isn't glossy. I am hoping after 45 minutes of flash time and the 2nd. coat it will look OK. Seems like there is a lot of popping but that may be just the material settling out. In either case I can probably sand/buff it out if it doesn't settle. Just looked again and more popping. I think I need to scale back on the activator some. I put some photos on my server of the results:
http://55chevy210.homeip.net/dodge/1...rom_hell_1.jpg
http://55chevy210.homeip.net/dodge/1...rom_hell_2.jpg
http://55chevy210.homeip.net/dodge/1...rom_hell_3.jpg
http://55chevy210.homeip.net/dodge/1...rom_hell_4.jpg
http://55chevy210.homeip.net/dodge/1...rom_hell_5.jpg

5:30PM CST - 2nd. coat of clear went on thick and it glossed right up to a real nice looking job. I only waited 30 minutes to flash as opposed to 45 as with the color. Anyone out there reading this should have painted today because all the dust and bugs are at my place. They can be buffed out later. The important thing it that it's cleared and I can call it done. I'm afraid of squirting on another coat because it could ruin the first two and I'm back to square -1. This clear is "crap!" I should have gone with DAU75 but was sold on this junk. Everything was going fine until I shot the first coat of this. Then it went straight down. The second coat went on a lot thicker and covered the popping - for now. The orange peel in the back part will be sanded and buffed to a shine as will the rest of the roof.
http://55chevy210.homeip.net/dodge/1...ontal_view.jpg
http://55chevy210.homeip.net/dodge/1...ont_Corner.jpg
http://55chevy210.homeip.net/dodge/1...t_Corner_1.jpg
http://55chevy210.homeip.net/dodge/1...t_Corner_2.jpg
http://55chevy210.homeip.net/dodge/1...Vertical_1.jpg
http://55chevy210.homeip.net/dodge/1...Vertical_2.jpg

The left rear vertical area will really need some attention. Orange peel and dirt but thick clear as well.

Last edited by Abby.Normal; 07-08-2007 at 04:50 PM.
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Old 07-08-2007, 06:13 PM
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Abby, you're fighting with a number of problems there, the spray area with no filtered air coming in-bugs, etc... and the heat might have been to much for the clear activator you have. You got it sprayed though and it might clean up enough to be acceptable with colorsanding and buffing or you might need to sand and reclear. If you ever do set up a temporary booth with clean air, learn your spraygun and products, etc..-the odds go way up for quality results.
As a kid I sprayed a few completes in my Parent's driveway-the first one turned out really well but the ones after that were a battle with bugs,dirt, runs, orange peel, etc... I know what you're fighting against.
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old 07-08-2007, 07:23 PM
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The air I use is as clean if not cleaner than a dentist's air supply. I have zero moisture and 4 filters (3 on the air supply and 1 on the gun) in line. I have an invention on my compressor system that eliminates virtually all the moisture from the supply. If I could only get that invention to market (pretty stupid in this area too) I could retire. It works better than the refrigeration devices for $400+ and they require power. The dust flared up because I didn't wet down the floor (I will never learn). The bugs are there because I opened the door too soon.

The roof actually looks better than the tailgate did when I did that. I color sanded the tailgate and buffed it out and it looks beautiful. Absolutely professional. I think, more like hope, the roof will turn out nice too after it is color sanded.

The main problem I was having is the new clear. I've never used it before and will never again. In fact, when I take the truck to a body shop for them to refinish I will hand them the clear and say: "Please take this off my hands." The primer is also new to me. I'm used to lacquer primer. That stuff is simple to work with.

Nope, I'm done. My paint gun is going up for sale as soon as I can get it there. I will give you first dibs on it - make me an offer.

Thanks for all your help, Bob, and I won't be bothering you again for paint work. But if you ever need any help with computers or servers - feel free to ask.

Abby.Normal
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