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Old 06-08-2006, 07:02 PM
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urethane acrylic problems

I'm painting with kirker urethane acrylic. first time i used urethane and i'm having a lot of problems. First time i shot the vehicle i got major orange peel in the clear. Solved that problem by reducing it more and increasing the air pressure a little. Now when i shot it the paint went on great but when i shot the clear it must of ate into the paint and i have dark spots in places. The car looks nice and shiney looks like everyhting went on well but is really disclored in spots. Did i just not wait long enough to shoot the clear? How long should i wait with urethane? It said a half hour on the can? thanks for any help. this is a great site.

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Old 06-08-2006, 07:57 PM
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Are the dark spots large or small? Was the base mixed well? Could it be that the problem was there before the clear was sprayed? Was the base activated? Can you post photos?

The time between base and clear that is given on the can, is generally an approximate time, and could need to be increased based on the temp and humidity.
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Old 06-08-2006, 08:24 PM
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The spots are large and no i'm sure they were not there before the clear went on. Its a dark mettalic green and these areas the paint is much darker now and really noticeable. Not sure if my camera is good enough to really give you a clear picture of it but i will give it a try tommorow. thanks
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Old 06-08-2006, 10:57 PM
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I've never used kirker, but it could be possible that the clear moved the metallic in the base causing the metallic to change the way its oriented in spots. metallics laying down or applied heavy will be darker then if it is applied dryer or the flake is standing on edge. This can happen if the base hasn't sat long enough before clearing and the first coat of clear was applied somewhat wet. It could be possible that the kirker is a single stage urethane system that is converted for use as a base. Could be if this is the case, that it would require longer flash times then a system that is only basecoat and you can't also mix single stage with the same tints. I don't make paint, so I don't know what the difference in the resins or binders, ect used. But many lower priced paints can be mixed as either a single stage or a basecoat. Again, I am not familar with kirker as I haven't used it, but have had a run in the first coat of clear over an unactivated base move the metallic causing a dark spot there. Is it possible that the base wasn't applied even and you didn't notice it till it was cleared? Did this happen on the first coat of clear or the last coat. Unless it just happened to be a problem with the paint, this is my best guess that it is mottled in spots, or the clear caused pigment floating. I had a real strange one many years ago using ppg dbc (light blue metallic)once that I never figured out what was going on. I sprayed on the base, all looked good. First coat of clear the metallic formed a fairly large area but in a circle only on the edge not in the center right in the middle of the hood. As the clear flashed off it evened out. Did it on all three coats of clear but the metallic was even in the end. Strange. I had a problem on one recently that looked good when I cleared, but after I was done spraying all coats of clear A dark spot had formed. It was a small spot but it didn't notice it when I was done spraying. When I went back and looked a half hour later it was there. I assumed it was because it was fairly cold that day and I the reducer I had was slow and I should have allowed the base to sit a real long time before clear. I let it sit a fairly long time, but must not have been long enough.
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Old 06-09-2006, 09:57 AM
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yes i think this is exactly what happen with me. i'm sure the spots were not there after the paint but as soon as the first coat of clear went on i noticed dark spots forming in places. it is really noticeable around the section that comes down from the roof to the rear fender like it just started flowing the paint down that was under the clear and around the curves of the front fenders. i'm pretty sure i dident let this flash long enough. How long can i wait with urethane before applying clear? what would be the maximum time before shooting the clear? Thanks
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Old 06-09-2006, 02:33 PM
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If you haven't done so already, read this Kirker tech sheet. How long did you wait to apply the clear?
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Old 06-09-2006, 09:58 PM
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That's a short tech sheet! Not a whole lot of info there Suggested undercoats, sanding grit suggestions, bake times, spray temps, pot life, dry to handle time, clearcoat suggestions, viscosity.....
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Old 06-10-2006, 04:28 AM
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This is all I will say on the subject:

I have never seen the stuff.

However if the problem is minor just leave it, do not try and recoat.

Reason I say this is a high end shop in W.VA had a guy supply the stuff for a restro on a 69 Chev and I had at least eight hours on the cell phone over a three week period trying to help the guy get through fixing a chip on deck lid and the two doors that were acquired in assembly.

The only salvation for the shop was the customer was paying $45 an hour labor but the customer was so mad at the extra charges he called me because he thought the painter was a screw up.

It was a real PIA and I had nothing to do with it but he could get no other help.
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Old 06-10-2006, 06:38 AM
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kirker

I also have been trying to paint my car using kirker and have had lots of problems. I am pretty sure it is me being a real novice but the sad thing is i went to try some PPG just on my fiberglass hood and wow what a difference. It went on better and the clear coat looked great. Everything just seemed to flow better. I dont mean to knock Kirker because I believe it was probaly something I was doing wrong. But the ppg was more user friendly maybe? I did try using different guns and hell I even bought a larger compressor. Sorry if I offend the Kirker people but I think I will switch.
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Old 06-10-2006, 09:29 AM
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yes i havent really had any problems like this and i've painted several cars this is the first time i used kirker and its just been a nightmare. but i think i'm gonna give it one more shot with the kirker urethane.
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Old 06-10-2006, 10:33 AM
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The way I see it is most people who have a problem with Kirker paint use it for their first attempt at painting, having absolutely no idea what they're doing, screw up because of inexperience. Not wanting to admit that they don't know what they're doing, they go on to blame the paint, because, after all, it couldn't possibly be user error. They then go talk to their buddies, forums, etc, to find out what they did wrong. Now they know how to paint, use another brand, and get a decent job, so it really was the paint, right?
Some of you like to talk about support for Kirker, well, at the price you pay for it do you really expect 24/7/365 toll free support? I think they make a good product for the price and there must be many other people who feel the same way, otherwise they would have gone out of business long ago.
When it comes to painting a total restoration car that you've spent hundreds of hours on and thousands of dollars or a show car, then no, I wouldn't even think of using Kirker paint. I would be using high end PPG, Dupont or HOK. Kirker has it's place and I see no reason it can't be used on a daily driver. The Kirker products I have no problem using are their epoxy and urethane primers, acrylic urethane single stage and clearcoats. I wouldn't use the enamels, well, maybe on a tractor or lawnmower. I've used the clears over Autoair, HOK bases and a Dupont base and haven't had any problems.
Just remember that some people have problems with other brands of paint too.
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Old 06-10-2006, 01:41 PM
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yes i totally agree. theres nothing wrong with the product it actually looks really good on the vehicle other than the blotches that i got because i think i put the clear on too soon. i'm certainly going to give it another try and i think i'll get it right this time. for the cost of this paint i think its a great product. it is just a lack of experience for me i havent used urethane very much at all and should have probably did a little more research before using it. but i'll get it right eventually.
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Old 06-10-2006, 02:47 PM
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Kirker

Hello,
Where did you obtain the paint, and how much was it? I plan to use Kirker because I have a 19 yr old Ciera I want to look better. You know the peeling clear problems of the '80's. I want to use Kirker because it is
  • inexpensive
  • easy to mix [it has been reduced to three quarts in a gallon can. Adding a quart of activator yields a gallon]
  • available in a number of factory colors. They have a number of dark blues that look good.
  • can be sprayed single stage. Clear can be added in the final coat for better gloss, or it can be topcoated with clear
  • Did I say it is inexpensive?

At Smart Shoppers the paint is about $40. The activator is about $20. So for $60 I have enough paint for the outside of the car.
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Old 06-10-2006, 04:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ricksautorestoration
I'm painting with kirker urethane acrylic. first time i used urethane and i'm having a lot of problems. First time i shot the vehicle i got major orange peel in the clear. Solved that problem by reducing it more and increasing the air pressure a little. Now when i shot it the paint went on great but when i shot the clear it must of ate into the paint and i have dark spots in places. The car looks nice and shiney looks like everyhting went on well but is really disclored in spots. Did i just not wait long enough to shoot the clear? How long should i wait with urethane? It said a half hour on the can? thanks for any help. this is a great site.
You said "First time i shot the vehicle..." - what did you do afterwards? Wet sand and re-shoot?

Did you use a base sealer coat before topcoating with paint?

Did you use Red Cream harner in your Bondo? Believe it or not the red color will bleed through a lot of these newer colors/paints especially if you didn't use a good sealer.

IF you didn't use a uniform sealer are the dark areas where you did bodywork and or primer work?
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Old 06-11-2006, 01:35 AM
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the dark areas are along the panels that go from the roof to the back fender its a blazer. also along the tops of the fenders. i sanded when i re-shot it so it was all tyhe same color. i'm certain these spots were not here prior to putting the clear on its like the clear just made its way into the paint and formed these spots. i', almost certain i dident wait long enough before applying the clear it was a warm humid day aslo.
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