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Old 01-19-2007, 02:26 PM
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Urethane peel or just good ole orange peel?

I have laid down some PPG Concept SS on my truck doors and have some kind peel. This topcoat is laid over a base coat of epoxy with 2 coats of sanded K36 build primer over that. I am using the infamous HF purple gun.

So can I fix this with application with better gun setup and/or technique?

Also what can I do to fix the peel I have already laid out?
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Old 01-19-2007, 03:10 PM
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My guess would be that you mixed your paint too thick. It doesn't look to bad though and you may be able to wetsand with 600/1200 then polish with "3M Super Duty Rubbing Compund" followed by a high luster compound. That Super Duty compound cuts the paint fast so be careful. Make sure you change pads on your polisher when you switch to the high gloss compound. Avoid silica based rubbing compounds.
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Old 01-19-2007, 04:00 PM
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Open up your fluid some more.
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Old 01-19-2007, 04:24 PM
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too much fluid , not enough air. the dreaded " thanepeel "
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Old 01-19-2007, 04:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shine
too much fluid , not enough air. the dreaded " thanepeel "
That is what I was afraid of... I have adjusted my gun in both directions but both times ended up with some peel, although this result is better than the stuff I shot last week. I am currently running 50lbs on the gun regulator, and will experiment with turning the fluid adjust in.

The more spraying I do the more I get the feel for it. Its kinda like welding as far as the sound goes, you can kinda hear and feel in the gun if things are adjusted right before you hit the panel.

I got my other purple gun shooting primer great, but still am trying to find the sweet spot for topcoat, obviously.
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Old 01-19-2007, 08:01 PM
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Treat it like a clear coat color cut and buff.
One thing I've learned with the Purple gun is to FEED it enough AIR.
SS is akin to clear and you need a LOT of air to bust it up. Reason I had to go kinda slow when using one to spray clear with using 1/4" fittings,but it would lay it SLICK.
Turn the fluid down some. Around 2 is what I usually start out with and usually go IN to around 1 3/4 with the thick stuff at around 48-50 psi.
I switched to true 3/8" hose and fittings and that made a big difference in how it sprayed with a 1.4 tip set.Totaly different gun.
A touch more reduction will help with the cooler temps.
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Old 01-19-2007, 10:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bee4Me
Turn the fluid down some. Around 2 is what I usually start out with and usually go IN to around 1 3/4 with the thick stuff at around 48-50 psi.

I switched to true 3/8" hose and fittings and that made a big difference in how it sprayed with a 1.4 tip set.Totaly different gun.

A touch more reduction will help with the cooler temps.
I will definitely try 1 3/4 on the fluid knob. Not sure what my fittings are, I just bought the basic stuff at Lowe's, is that typically 1/4" or 3/8"?

My paint guy recommended 4:2:2 paint, hardener, reducer [the tech sheet says 4:2:1]. I used 4:2:2 both times I have shot this SS. I thought about reducing even more to combat the peel but worried that there might be some chemistry reason to not go thinner, like solvent pop. If the only tradeoff is the possibility of more runs, well I will try more reducer.

Thanks for the suggestions!
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Old 01-20-2007, 09:18 AM
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YES, the prob is a thick paint mix because on those flat panels, even if your gun were not adjusted exactly right, the paint should still flow out smooth. The danger of runs on the vertical surfaces is preferable to orange peal over the entire car. Just keep the gun moving.
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Old 01-20-2007, 09:28 AM
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high solids dont flow much at all. you must shoot for effect. #1 the hf guns are pretty much junk unless you get lucky and get a good one. i bought one for primer and threw it away. not worth the 40 bucks i spent. an old jga shot better. try upping the pressure and backing off on fluid a litlle at a time. you can over reduce a little to help it atomise. you have to break it up into small drops. in the old days the larger drops would melt together and flow. not so with high solids. good luck with it.
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Old 01-20-2007, 09:39 AM
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The hose should say it's size printed along the side. 1/4 or 3/8 I.D.
"most" hose bought is 3/8" id but that is no guarante it is.
Same with the fittings and couplers. They are OBVIOUS in the size difference between 3/8 & 1/4. The "normal" fittings that are supplied with air tools are 1/4" unless it's a huge impact or something.

I believe I'd stay where your at with the reduction. Your already over reduced according to the mix recipie. Not that going over is a "bad" thing but like you said,close to a pop problem which is even worse in the winter cause it sneaks up on you instead of just being in your face like hot weather.

I'd work on the gun and get it spraying right. The 3/8 set up will get you more speed/coverage cause the purple gun IS an air hog.
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Old 01-20-2007, 11:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGSKY
I have laid down some PPG Concept SS on my truck doors and have some kind peel. This topcoat is laid over a base coat of epoxy with 2 coats of sanded K36 build primer over that. I am using the infamous HF purple gun.

So can I fix this with application with better gun setup and/or technique?

Also what can I do to fix the peel I have already laid out?
Everyone is spot on about the air pressure and guns - but one thing I am wondering is...How smooth was the BC before applying CC?

I'm no pro - I miss the old Deltron paint - I have noticed with Concept is that if the BC is not applied smoothly - it doesn't matter what position or amount of material you put on the CC the peel is almost magnified - if you put enough material on and you block sanded with a soft block and 1500 you should be able to get the clear somewhat flat looking.
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Old 01-20-2007, 11:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shine
high solids dont flow much at all. you must shoot for effect. #1 the hf guns are pretty much junk unless you get lucky and get a good one. i bought one for primer and threw it away. not worth the 40 bucks i spent. an old jga shot better. try upping the pressure and backing off on fluid a litlle at a time. you can over reduce a little to help it atomise. you have to break it up into small drops. in the old days the larger drops would melt together and flow. not so with high solids. good luck with it.
I found that it's much better to go a little thin than a too thick. When in doubt, thin it out. You can quote me on that one if you like but please give me credit.

I bought a HF "Purple" gun and I love it. It shoots soooo much better than my old Binks 69 which I used for 25 years. lol.... That HF gun puts out a nice fine, even mist. I paid $14.99 for it.
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Old 01-21-2007, 01:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rambo_The_Dog
Everyone is spot on about the air pressure and guns - but one thing I am wondering is...How smooth was the BC before applying CC?
Well its SS not BC so what you see there is SS on top of K36.

The areas on the inside of the door that are exposed on this pickup; the window sill, window frame and bottom 1/3 of the door I wet sanded with 600. Those are the areas shown in the two pictures. The rest of the door was just scotchbrite scuffed K36. The finish on those areas I sanded is much better than the scuffed areas, and honestly I am fairly happy with them. I am shooting all the back sides of my parts in hopes of getting the user, the gun and my mix in sync before spraying the outside.

I am spraying the firewall today and will be trying my fluid at 1 3/4 and won't be shy about opening the air up!

Thanks all!
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Old 01-23-2007, 01:08 PM
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Well I shot my firewall on Sunday, experimented with much lower fluid settings and pumped the air up to 60 to see what happened. I settled on an air setting of about 55. Unfortunately I just got a different texture of peel . Is it too much to ask for perfection from a thirty dollar paint gun?! I am starting to think so, lol.

When experimenting with the fluid adjust on some masking paper I found that one turn out gave me about a 6" tall pattern with seemingly small drop size on the perimeter of the pattern [per Martins sheet on gun setup]. I had been running my fluid adjust at about 2.5 turns out. I hoped when using this much lower fluid setting that my paint would lay flat, but unfortunately not.

Could I be using the wrong reducer? I am using DT870. My garage is maintained at 70-75 degrees, possibly warmer during painting because I crank the ceiling heater when running my exhaust fan. Am I too warm for DT870? Thanks again for any suggestions!
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Old 01-23-2007, 02:57 PM
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i use slow reducer year round. you are just going to have to play with it on test panels to find the mix that matches your speed and habits. you must adjust everything to match you. i could hand you my gun set up and ready to clear and it would probly not work for you. dont up pressure and cut fluid at the same time. mark your knobs so you know where you are. it's like tunning a carb hope this helps. and dont be afraid to over reduce a little.
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