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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 09-20-2005, 08:03 AM
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I looked at the store yesterday and the new stuff is just called 3000 Series. It's water base and is supposed to be more environmentally friendly.
Meaning,It dosen't work as good as the old stuff. I have not tried it yet but in the demo that the 3M rep did it worked fine after a 3000 Trizac pad sand. That tell's me that it dosen't cut as well as almost anything will buff it out smooth after a 3-4000 wet sand.
I got some III regular cut and it just did not cut as well so i picked up some extra cut III due to them being out of II, which does a better job but still not up to the old II.
The II is still readily available around here anyway and is still tough to beat on cutting 12-1500 out.
I noticed Evercoat has a line of buffing product's as well. Nobody I talked with has used them so I don't have a clue as to how well they do.

Color sanding is WORK and one of the main things is to make sure it's done with block's to maintain a FLAT surface. Hand sanding and rookie DA work will only produce a wavy surface and no amount of buffing will straighten it out.
You'll just have shiny wave's.

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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 09-20-2005, 09:32 AM
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Great

You guys have given me great information. That has been very helpful. Now one more question is there ever a reason to use scotch-bright to prepare a surface or is that a no no ? Richie
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Old 09-20-2005, 12:56 PM
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Scotch brite's have a ton of use's in the prep area. They are way too course for any type of finish work.
I use the red for general scuffing of most anything. They are compairable to a 220-320 grit scratch. Great for doing old paint on jambs,pillars and such before new paint or epoxy after the recoat window has lapsed.
The gray pads are around a 400-600 grit and used as a final scuff for removing any sand scratch's after wet sanding primer before paint,general scuffing of clear between coats after color sanding or preping an area for a blend job. I use them after color sanding clear to get the edge's and seams as paper has a higher tendency to cut thru here and the pad does a great job with a lot less chance of cutting thru the clear or paint. I posted a few pages back on how to do edges on a graghic panel I was practicing on which give's you the general idea. I even glue them to an old DA pad and use them wet to matte finish aluminum.
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Old 09-21-2005, 01:01 AM
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Uuuuhummm,

Time for me just to put 2 bits of info in here. I used to polish paint, aluminum, stainless, steel (chrome) etc for a living for 8 years, hell ran the damn business. Anyway, let me know if anyone would like some ideas on polishing metals with some of the car products and I may have a paint idea or two. Personally, I like 3M products, and it is all I use for paint work and some metal work. Anyone want some Meguires stuff? Micro finishing is micro finishing. The principle is the same. It is 100% correct when they say that you must level the surface before polishing. Just one recommendation. I would start color sanding with 1200 more width wise of the body, and then go with 1500 to long angles of the body. I would then finish with 2000 with the length of the body. I then start buffing with a compound designed to take out 1200 grit scratch and then finish with a swirl remover. Heck, I have used coarser to start on some projects. The basic principle of leveling by going in somewhat opposing directions is even used in long boarding filler.
For anyone wanting to do aluminum - say for a firewall. Take a DA and start with 320 - 600 and so on. Should see mirror start to come out. Then go to polish / cut to a medium, say 1000- 1200 grit scratch compound, and then on to final. Should have a mirror. You can also hook a regular buffing wheel to your 7" - 5/8 shaft polisher. Start to DA with 320, and then use a polishing compound commonly found and called white diamond. Those 2 alone will take you to a mirror finish.
Can't believe I still like to see that mirror come out of anything. Use a mask though, all of this stuff is a killer on the lungs.
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Old 09-21-2005, 01:34 AM
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Riverman u can ship me all the mirror glaze stuff you have..." I like it allot "
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Old 09-21-2005, 08:07 AM
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and then use a polishing compound commonly found and called white diamond.
I do some aluminum and have used auto products with good results but I would like some more info on this compound. This a paste,liquid,bar???
What kind(s) of buff's? Wool,foam,other?
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Old 09-22-2005, 01:54 AM
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As far as the wheels, if you are going to do a larger area, I would use a wool with compound, but prepare to go higher with your DA first(many ads). If you are doing a smaller area, like say a bracket, you can use a 320 with about a 6-8" x 1" thick sewn cotton muslin buff and the white diamond (bar) Red tripoli will work also, just smears a bit due to the binder. That is what I like about a drier cutting compound like white diamond for especially soft metal like aluminum. On stainless and harder metal, use the green as a standard. Some folks also like what they call set up wheels that start with making a slurry and drying it on sisal wheels. Another nice trick on especially aluminum castings say like alternator housings is to use a brown scotchbrite disc on a 3' right angle grinder 1st to level, then go with a blue or 3M EXL wheel and then buff. You could also go with a 2 step EXL wheel process say like a #2 & then a #9SFN and then buff. The trick into speed is knowing what to use to get you there in the least amount of steps. By the way, the white diamond bar you may even find in a hardware store, yes it is usually as white as can be. Whatever you do, do not forget to try some of the scotchbrite products along with the EXL stuff. Oh, to answer your question, yes, use a cotton sewn buff with bar. The stiffer the buff, the more pressure exerted, the softer buff (less sewing) are used more for coloring (removing swirls). By the way, you can put small buffs on say a drill to polish paint around grills and areas where it is too hard for large buffer and where most would do by hand. Just be careful of these grabbing and sending your tool into your new paint job. Steady hand with other hand bracing tool is the eay to go. Also try to keep hand in the path of the tool to use as an emergency cushion (OUCH).
Hope that gives you some ideas. It takes pictures or to be in person to really show in depth, but I am open to try and answer questions. Like anything, once you know how to do something, it is usally easy.
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Old 09-22-2005, 09:49 PM
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Thanks for the information Riverman.

I have the white bar and some call it white rouge,if that's what your talking about. I have all kinds of buff's and an old 2 hp Baldor double shaft buffer I picked up years ago that will spin you around if your not carefull.

My issue has been with getting the "haze" out to really make it shine like chrome. Some pieces I still have trouble getting the buff lines out. That have something to with the "grain" of the piece or is it just technique?
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Old 09-23-2005, 12:47 AM
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Bee4,

The haze can be as simple as the binder in your rouge. Not all rouge is made the same. Try a fine tripoli with a non parafin binder is what the real key is as far as rouge goes. Also, another way to get rid of haze is to use a loose sewn cotton muslin and back off the pressure with a fine tripoli for your very last passes. A light feather technique and move the piece in a circuar motion. As far as the grain in the metal, you need to truly level the finish in order to get rid of that, that is where a DA can serve a home finisher well. If the grain is deep, you may have to go to a 180 or 240 to start. You really should be able to do most 6061T6 aluminum with 2 steps, note that 5052 is softer and 2024 even gummier yet. Onlareg flat items likek firewals, I opt for the DA, 7" buffer with a wool 1st, then a foam pad. Just did my firewall on my 49 two weeks ago this way. Good luck with your projects.
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old 09-23-2005, 08:15 AM
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I never considered a circular attack. Alway's been told to use straight line thinking.
Any contact's to get this non parifin base compound?
That the greasless type that E'Wood's sell's?
Picking's are slim around here locally for this type stuff. The guy I got the buffer from gave me some bricks of Tripoli that are made from a perticular clay out of S. Missouri which he said was the best avil. but it does seem to be parifin base.

By grain, I mean the actual metal's make up,like wood has a grain as to how it was grown vs. how it's cut, as all metals have a "direction" in which it was formed,molecular make up or what ever.

Thanks, Mike.
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Old 09-24-2005, 12:24 AM
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Bee4,

I gotta think a bit for the greasless compund. It has been a few years since I purchased any. I beleive a place called RIO Grande Supply had it on line though. By the way, yes, the metal does have a grain, especially depending on the type of finish from the mill. To save money and still get a good easy polish in SS for example, I would buy a 304 2B finish. A #4 was actually a mill finish that was ran through a series of straight line sanders (called timesavers for example) to achieve a semi polished grain type of finish. It looked like a semi mirror, the only problem was the first abrasive used was an 80 grit and those deep lines were still there. The illusion of a semi mirror was from a 220 grit cork burnishing belt that was used on top of a 80 grit and then 150 grit surface finish. You had to go below that substrate to get a true fine micro finish. On aluminum, it depends on whether it is a type of casting or extrusion for example and what was the rate and type of method used. On SS for example, it can come out of the mill with an almost mirror finish from it going through a vacuum furnace while it is cooling. The vacuum limits the oxide build up on the surface. A 50 power hand held magniifying scope ($10.00 from Radio Shack) will tell you alot about the surface. As a general rule, just look it over, DA it to remove those lines, and then polish in the higher range.
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