URGEN!T HELP! craters/fish eyes in my paint - Page 2 - Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board
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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 02-18-2007, 05:39 PM
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Sounds to me like you may have water or oil coming from your compressor. Did you use one of those plastic screw on moisture accumulators which you put at the base of your gun? If not use two of them next time and shoot a test panel before starting on the rod.

Also make sure that you aren't mixing your paint to thick. This is a common problem. Better to be on the thin side than too thick. IMHO. ESPECIALLY shooting at 30psi. You might want to thin the paint and increase the pressure.

Another consideration: If you put enough paint on the car, you may not have to reshoot. Just wetsand and polish. Polish with a gritty polish to take it down fast then use the super fine (change pads) for a high luster.

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Last edited by tab; 02-18-2007 at 05:47 PM.
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Old 02-18-2007, 08:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by milo
I think it would be dumb to smear that stuff on it again...
.. ever... it would make as much sence as asking one of those that live in a cardboard box by the railroad tracks how to refinance your house..



http://www.a2zautoforums.com/showthr...ost36342<br />

Milo, does your wife know you wetsand in the shower? You're doing awesome work using just cleanser and water, works just fine for you and I've tried it quite a few times since the first time reading your suggestion-no problems at all. But I also have no problems using solvent based W&G removers followed by the Waterborne cleaners- no contaminant problems ever. They both remove different contaminants and also some of the same. The trouble I see with kathyno's deal is we don't know what contaminants they are dealing with so why not use both and make sure all is removed? Will Comet clean every kind of contaminant from the surface? Maybe?
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Old 02-18-2007, 09:02 PM
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We wetsanded, remasked where needed and wiped the car down with alcohol + water. I mixed the paint in a 300ml Deltron to 350ml reducer and shot the car again. We got a few little problems (few fish eyes) but things went a LOT better. I think the alcohol helped. We even got some of the panels clear coated and the clear turned out REALLY NICE (dcu2021) except until about 3pm when the temperature dropped a few degrees and the wind picked up... A LOT of dust started getting blown onto all the horizontal surfaces . We will have to resand, remask and reshoot next weekend if the weather permits it. The picture is of one of the doors that has been clear coated.

I have shot this paint before and have never had a problem. I have even shot it on areas that I have to admit I didn't take my time preping/cleaning... but the paint still looked incredible. So I take all the time in the world for the body and get a problem? makes me think something is wrong with my DX-330 or maybe the planets weren't aligned for me.

Oh, I was wondering what the FINEST grit is for sanding a light coat of base coat to apply more base coat? Once again, thanks for all of your help.
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Old 02-18-2007, 09:18 PM
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You can wetsand base with any grit if you use the DX-330 or similar solvent base wax and grease remover instead of water. Your contamination problems could be from a number of things-I've seen it happen with brands of paper towels, deoderant, cheap mixing cups,- there's really many possible sources. I really don't think the DX is the cause of the problem if you're using it properly. Many use it to wetsand basecoat flaws between applications so you'd think if there's a problem that it would definately show then.

If you're going to use just water and wetsand basecoat then I wouldn't go any finer than 1000 so it doesn't clog the paper, if you use DX-330 you can go as fine as you want-2500 or 3000.
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old 02-18-2007, 10:14 PM
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So you have it all cleared, but some trash in the paint and a few fisheyes. If its all cleared, I think I'd sand the clear with around 800 grit to take out the trash and hopefully not go through, and sand the areas you have the fisheyes with around 600. I'd use water, and hopefully now that its all cleared your fisheye problem will be hopefully gone. Spot in the base where the fisheyes were sanded out. You can build up layers of base and wetsand between coats to fill them in, or they didn't all get sanded out or you missed some. I never tried using solvent base W&G remover to wetsand. Doesn't it soften and remove unactivated dbc base? But honestly with the fisheye problem you have been fighting, If you put on enough coats of clear, and the fisheyes aren't too bad and you don't have many, maybe you can wetsand them and the trash out and buff.
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 02-18-2007, 10:17 PM
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Okay, never mind. See now you didn't get everything cleared.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 02-18-2007, 11:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baddbob
Milo, does your wife know you wetsand in the shower? Will Comet clean every kind of contaminant from the surface? Maybe?
The little woman is a pretty good sport about the water play it's true,,, As for Comet..the old timer who passed along the method to me taught that Ajax was better to use than Comet because of something Ajax didn't have in it that Comet does...

If you click the "related" wax and grease remover thread at the bottom of this page you'll see a 2 year old thread to the day 2/17/05 that the same song is being sung round and round. It's my only pet peve.. In that 2 year period alone I've had over 300 different paint projects where Ajax & water and for blends FinalSand scuff paste was the only cleaner on top of the hundreds of happy projects that had me sold back then .....

For the benifit of the new comer, I'm not trying to change the habits of any of the pros set in their paticular style/method of operation, that isn't gonna happen we all know but what is also true is I didn't just get lucky with Ajax and water once in a while but 2 and 3 projects weekly for years now including today, even right now and after typing this I'm gonna shoot some primer on a surface that was cleaned without a careful drop of a petroleum based fluid.
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Last edited by milo; 02-19-2007 at 12:03 AM.
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 02-19-2007, 06:55 AM
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Clear something up for me milo,
Are you rinsing the Ajax off with a hose or just misting with a spray bottle and wiping it down?
I do use this when the weather permits outside and I use Bon Ami but with Winter time and highs in the 30-40's last thing I want to do is wash something outside.
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 02-19-2007, 07:02 PM
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In the paint booth or clean room not outside, right there where your gonna spray..
No wiping , only clean filtered air after the water..

Just water,,,a real good rinse with water. Next watch close as the skin of the water breaks. Look carfelluy for any signs that will cause problems when base color or in the event of a blend repair clear gets to it. Nows the time to catch any little inperfection, and retreat and rerinse. Let it air dry or use very clean dry compressed air. Just dry air touches the panel. No rags = no lint or contamination= no worry. No tack rags either. If anything just before paint use a bare hand to lightly collect anything off the surface wipeing it in your other hand often. Be super aware that natural oils from your hands and fingers that can leave fingerprints if not carefull to just gently glide over the area till you feel it's smooth.
Click this link, don't mind spelling...
http://www.a2zautoforums.com/showthread.php?t=3782

Last edited by milo; 02-19-2007 at 07:09 PM.
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old 02-19-2007, 10:33 PM
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Kathyno,

DX330 works great if you wash with soap and water before using it. But I only use it for collision work where I am going to use sealer before paint. after I have EVALUATED condition of the paint, If it is really bad, like the owner of the vehicle has never washed it in the 6yrs he has owned it I will use Bon Ami but only Bon Ami because I know it has an oxygen bleach and nothing else no secret ingredients. If I am taking paint down to metal I use Glasurit 700-10 WATER BASED prep/cleaner on the bare metal. Everyone has their WAY and it works for them Your problem is you dont have a WAY yet, so dont get discouraged. Also I didnt read weather you remasked everything after primer or after basecoat, Most high end shops remask after each step just so they dont blow drying primer or basecoat into the paint or clear. Which also produces a fisheye like appearance especially basecoat in the clear. If you used plastic sheeting make sure the right side is out. Also how far away is your dryer/filter from your compressor? Hope some of this can help.
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 02-19-2007, 11:12 PM
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Few things that can also hurt the paint, lawn mower exhaust, barbecue grill smoke, a freshly waxed car near by, wax rags, wd40, silicone spray, car exhaust, armour all.

Rob
http://www.1969supersport.com/
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 02-21-2007, 10:28 AM
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Hi again, thank you for all the responses. Yes, the desiccant filter is far away form the compressor and I did use plastic sheating but I am not sure if I had the right side facing out (what happens if its not?) My wife reminded me that I had used fish eye eliminator about a year ago to shoot some clear we were having problems with... I used the same gun (cleaned) to shoot the primer sealer and I was thinking maybe this caused the problem with the base. But who knows? It could be anything.

Now I have some questions about the parts I clear coated (dcu-2021)... I do have a ton of dust and craters in it and I know I have to wet sand it with 800 to shoot more on top but the dust/craters seem to be in there pretty deep and I am afraid of burning thru. I did put two thick coats on but still... do I have to sand all the way till the surface is completley flat? Lastly, I don't have much "regular orange peel" but there is a lot of ripples in it and looks kind of "leathery" now, what did I do wrong? (The day I shot it, it looked ok)

wow you guys probably think I have no idea what I am doing... well, you're right, I'm just a mechanic

thanks again, peter & kathy
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old 02-21-2007, 02:50 PM
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The leathery look is from shrinkage, the more buildup you have without a full cure the more chance you'll have this show up. You can usually sand the defects almost completely out then repaint and have good results-really depends how deep the craters are.

Are these fisheyes showing on the first coat of clear and not going away? are more showing up on the 2nd coat of clear? Are you getting any water in your airlines?

You really need to find out where the contamination problem is if you want to lay some good paint on.

Is the plastic sheeting a brand name product designed for masking?

What kind of toweling are you using to wipe down the parts? What is your actual cleaning proceedure-are you spraying the cleaner on or wetting a rag? Wiping off till dry?

Did you have any fisheye problems during the primer stage?

What containers are the paint products being mixed in?

Did the airhose ever have a tool oiler installed?

There's lots of possible causes. Bob
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 03-04-2007, 04:30 PM
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How is it going? , got the bike done in the nick of time, and it darn near won..

http://www.sjbmwracing.com/
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Last edited by milo; 03-04-2007 at 04:39 PM.
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