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Old 02-17-2007, 06:37 PM
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URGEN!T HELP! craters/fish eyes in my paint

Hi everyone I am new here and really need your help. This is my second time shooting paint (using deltron 2000 with dt870 reducer) and even though I cleaned everything thouroughly, (with dx 330 and I have a small dessicant system) I got these craters in my first coat of paint..... especially in the fiberglass part (shown in picture).
I mixed the paint in the following ratio: 300ml Deltron + 400ml DT870 reducer (giving me a total of 700ml). Does this sound about right? I am using Transtar 2k Speedseal for a primer sealer and I let it dry for over 30 mins.

It looks like solvent pop to me but I don't know what to do about it... I tried spraying a really light mist coat and and then a second coat and it was much better but there were still some craters here and there... oh and I am shooting under a canopy with plastic sheating all around. the temp today was 75 degrees and humidity was only 40%..... perfect day! If anyone can help I would greatly appreciate it (I need to re-shoot tomorrow or I will have to wait till next weekend... ) Thank you. -peter
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Old 02-17-2007, 06:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kathyno
Hi everyone I am new here and really need your help. This is my second time shooting paint (using deltron 2000 with dt870 reducer) and even though I cleaned everything thouroughly, (with dx 330 and I have a small dessicant system) I got these craters in my first coat of paint..... especially in the fiberglass part (shown in picture).
I mixed the paint in the following ratio: 300ml Deltron + 400ml DT870 reducer (giving me a total of 700ml). Does this sound about right? I am using Transtar 2k Speedseal for a primer sealer and I let it dry for over 30 mins.

It looks like solvent pop to me but I don't know what to do about it... I tried spraying a really light mist coat and and then a second coat and it was much better but there were still some craters here and there... oh and I am shooting under a canopy with plastic sheating all around. the temp today was 75 degrees and humidity was only 40%..... perfect day! If anyone can help I would greatly appreciate it (I need to re-shoot tomorrow or I will have to wait till next weekend... ) Thank you. -peter
Of course the PPG rep would tell you not to use Transtar..but your problems could be any of the following...

1. Not cleaning the parts correctly...this excerpt is from another post on blistering paint - you might want to read through it for some further information on cleaner/residue problems...

Link to post "Blistering Paint"

Quote:
Sorry - I gotta ask more about your application technique...are you using a single wipe and letting the material air dry?

- or -

are you doing it the correct Karate Kid way..."wipe on, wipe off?"

I was always taught to use 2 wipes...1 wet to clean a smaller area and 1 clean dry to immediately wipe any residue off before the cleaner dries.
2. Fiberglass parts are notorious for fisheyes...you might want to get some fish eye inhibitor to add to the paint.

3. Check #1 again!
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Old 02-17-2007, 07:31 PM
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Those are fisheyes. New fiber glass, usualy has mold release on it, which needs to be cleaned well with soap and water, and then a few cleanings with prep-sol (DX 330) with new rags each time. If you sanded it without cleaning it well, you will have rubbed the contaminants into the gel coat. Fiberglass needs to be clean, clean , clean.

Also, how long did you let the last DX330 dry before you painted it? If the DX330 was not completely flashed off, it will fisheye on you. These solvents are petroleum based. Wait at least 30 minutes (longer is better with fiberglass) after using DX330 before applying paint.

Ed
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Old 02-17-2007, 08:13 PM
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RE: Crater Fish Eyes

Thanks for the quick responses.
I did use the Karate Kid method for the dx330. We bought 3M Perfect-It wipes (lindt free) at the suggestion of Tri-City Paint. We probably went through about fifty of them wiping down the car, always getting fresh ones for each panel and covering the whole car twice.

This problem occurred on both steel parts and fiberglass, but the problem was MUCH more pronounced on the fiberglass. We cleaned the 'glass parts really well before shooting a bunch of PCL Polyprime over it and wet sanding.

Will it be ok if I "mist" the paint on as the first coat instead of putting on a medium coat? (this seemed to help a little)

Just in case anyone was wondering I was using a Devilbiss Finishline with a 1.3mm tip at 30psi inlet pressure.

Thanks again for the help - Peter

P.S: Once I get this paint thing figured out, I am going to shoot dcu2021 ppg clear tomorrow is there anything I should watch out for?
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Old 02-17-2007, 08:23 PM
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Sounds like your materials, wipes and prep were ok - other than there was release agent, as someone else suggested and might have gotten spread around.

Did you get fisheyes in the sealer? Or is this fisheyes down to the sealer?

I'd block sand with 400 wet and maybe even re-seal, then dust the first couple of coats of base. Just be careful not to get it too dry - or leave fisheyes in there as it will get magnified once you put clear on..no matter how much you sand and buff the clear.
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Old 02-17-2007, 08:39 PM
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Thank you Rambo The Dog,
The fisheyes were not in the sealer, at least I don't think they were. We were unfortunately shooting grey sealer over grey primer and it was VERY hard to tell the difference as I was shooting.
Looks like my wife and I will be resanding all the parts tomorrow and trying it again. We are also going to try removing the canopy tarps and letting the car soak some sun as well.
Does anyone use anything other than DX330? I keep hearing that people have problems with it and would like something more painless. I read that you can use an 85% alcohol and 15% water mix and wipe the car down with that too, has anyone here tried this?

Thanks agin for all the replies. - Peter
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Old 02-17-2007, 09:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kathyno
Does anyone use anything other than DX330?
There is a way to check if your surface is ready or not simply by getting it wet with water and watching how the skin of the water acts as it dries..
Heres a method I use that has never failed (1000s) and might be worth a read ...
http://www.a2zautoforums.com/showthread.php?t=3782
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Old 02-17-2007, 09:11 PM
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Fisheyes can be caused by many things. Like already mentioned new fiberglass parts can have mold release on them and need to be cleaned well. But it sounds like you did clean well and you also got it on metal parts. Air supply, is it clean, but you didn't get this in your sealer coat, but make sure you are getting clean filter air supply. Where is your filter located? No products with silicone were used somewhat in the area recently. Other things to look at is the mixing container you used, even heard the dedorant, laundry detergent used, washing with dish soap ect causing fisheyes. Some people have had problems with tack rags causing fisheyes also, although I haven't personally had tackrags or dishsoap cause me problems. You were wiping the prepsol on and following with a clean dry rag right and gave awhile to evaporate before painting? Sounds like you took the proper preventive steps but something bit you. It does sound like contamination from the fiberglass parts since most pronouced and transfered to the metal, but sounds like you changed wipes often and did a thorough job.
I had a new gun cause a fisheye problem once, but it was a cheap chinese one, and once I took it apart and cleaned well, it was fine.
I think your course of action is to clean well and sand out the fisheyes and rebase. Change anything that may have been a problem.
I don't like using fisheye eliminator. You are actually adding silicone to the paint,and now your spraying it through your spray gun. Plus it sprays out more orange peely and are trying to cover the fisheyes. Hope you figure out what caused it and can rectify it for respraying.
Mix ratio on the base was about right.

Last edited by kenseth17; 02-17-2007 at 09:19 PM.
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Old 02-18-2007, 08:25 AM
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I am about to start over on my car this morning and was wondering if I can use scotch-brite UltraFine sheets instead of the 600 grit wet sanding to rescuff the primer-sealer. I laid down masking paper over the whole floor and wet sanding will ruin my entire masking job.
Thank you all - Peter
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Old 02-18-2007, 08:58 AM
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Remask it .
masking is part of the fun ...
no more wax and grease remover though..

wet sand 400 ..
rinse good, remask and shoot paint
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Old 02-18-2007, 09:29 AM
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I agree on the remask, you might be able to save most of the masking in the jambs but for the major exterior areas-yes remask. Also look at your airsupply, gun, and clothes to make sure the contaminants aren't coming from them. A $15 desicant snake dryer can make a world of difference on an airsupply that's less than perfect, also a disposable filter at the gun-if your compressor is having a workout keeping up or if it is old and worn it could be pumping some water and oil into the air. I'd definately give it a light sanding with 600 wet then a good rubdown with a grey scotchbrite, then mask and wipe with the DX330 followed by another wipedown with a waterborn wax and grease remover or a 50/50 mix of isopropal alchol and water before shooting it again. Also-make sure you give that basecoat a good amount of flashtime between coats to avoid any lifting problems on the respray.
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Old 02-18-2007, 09:58 AM
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I think it would be dumb to smear that stuff on it again...
.. ever... it would make as much sence as asking one of those that live in a cardboard box by the railroad tracks how to refinance your house..



http://www.a2zautoforums.com/showthr...6342#post36342
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Last edited by milo; 02-18-2007 at 02:07 PM.
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Old 02-18-2007, 11:41 AM
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We have begun wetsanding all of the parts with 600 wet. The areas that I have not painted I am just scuffing with the scotch-brite. After all of that is done I am going to try wiping down a panel with some Klean-Strip alcohol and DI water and see how that goes.
Next time I do this I am probably going to try the Transtar SCAT speedi-clean instead of the DX330 because it just seems too problematic.
I'll update this after I shoot some paint.
Thanks again for all the help - Peter
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Old 02-18-2007, 12:35 PM
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One thing that I haven't seen listed is to make sure that no silicone spray is sprayed anywhere close to the area you are painting in. I've seen paint jobs ruined by that.

As the others pretty well covered, it is necessary to consider all sources of potential contamimation.
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Old 02-18-2007, 01:18 PM
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Quote:
No products with silicone were used somewhat in the area recently.

The message you have entered is too short, please lengthen to at least 10 characters. Guess there is a first time for everything, lol.
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