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??? Usc All Metal

21K views 13 replies 9 participants last post by  302 Z28 
#1 ·
Is anyone familiar with the use of all metal? Im going to try it for som slight dents in the roof. Im trying to go as bondo free as I can. Any good advie on how to use sand and paint over?? Thanks
 
#2 ·
Ditch the silver fillers, they offer no benifit IMO after years of testing here in the road salt capital of the world. Lay down two good coats of quality epoxy primer and do your filler work over that, seal with epoxy and finish off with a quality primer surfacer and it'll last a few lifetimes.
 
#3 ·
I am with bob. I use to use a lot of that stuff at an old job. Not a really big fan of it personally. Granted we used it to fair large fabricated aluminum pieces for yachts and mixed up large batches, so for ordinary use shouldn't and smaller areas, shouldn't be a problem, but could be a bit tricky till had some experience to get the right mix of liquid hardener mixing a large batch, to be somewhere between hardening up on you while spreading and never hardening up. Make sure you mix really well, or you will be digging out soft spots. Also want to get on sanding at the right time, can become very hard to sand after its sat long enough.
Needless to say, I prefer a fiberglass filler over all metal (not really a metal filler as they tout to me, just because it has aluminum powder in it for a filler). I think fiberglass filler is more user friendly, easier to work with, and just as good as all metal for applications where you want something a little more water proof then plastic filler, or have a little extra fill thickness. I've also seen all metal have a tendancy to crack, but then it got abused at a bit at the yacht dealer on how thickly it needed to be applied on some of those fabricated parts the welders sent to us. There may be others on the other hand who swear by the all metal fillers.
Best bet is to work out the metal as good as you can, epoxy, and use a minimal thickness of filler like bob said. Regular plastic filler or finishing filler will be fine and should hold up fine, if they are worked out, Properly prepped and metal is not cold, and you don't abuse filler thickness.
 
#4 ·
Thanks guys, I have a whole gallon of the stuff i bought and well 90 dollars is a lot to waste. Mt htoughts for it were. First in the door jam I had a Huge rust hole about for inches by four inches and once cleaning it out i fabricated and stitch welded in a new piece, It had a lot of bends being in the corner and i was going to use all metal there to make it look like new plus im afraid of someons foot later on hitting it and cracking the fiberglass or plastic filler, The other area I was going to use it was in place of bondo on the new quarter skins where I need minor touch up where i stitch welded them together? Should I abort these Ideas? Thankc Chris
 
#6 ·
A waste of money imho. but you got it so you might as well use it.

here is what it is made of:
=====================================================================
INGREDIENTS WGT% CAS # TLV/PEL

Styrene 15-25% 100-42-5 OSHA PEL 100 ppm
CPEL 200 ppm
ACGIH: TLV 20 ppm
STEL 100 ppm
See Health Hazard Information

Non-fibrous Talc 15-25% 14807-96-6 ACGIH: TWA 2 mg/m3

OSHA: TLV 20 mppcf

Castor Oil Derivative 0-3% 8001-78-3 OSHA: PEL 15 mg/m3


Aluminum Powder 10-20% 7429-90-5 ACGIH: TWA 10 mg/m3

USC blue ice:
INGREDIENTS WGT% CAS #

Styrene 10-20% 100-42-5

Non-fibrous Talc 30-40% 14807-96-6

Calcium Carbonate Blend 10-20% 1317-65-3, 471-34-1

Glass Beads 5-10% 65997-17-3

Silicon Dioxide Amorphous 1-5% 7631-86-9

USC Pro 7

INGREDIENTS WGT% CAS #

Styrene 10-20% 100-42-5

Non-fibrous Talc 30-40% 14807-96-6

Calcium Carbonate Blend 10-20% 1317-65-3, 471-34-1

Glass Beads 5-10% 65997-17-3

Silicon Dioxide Amorphous 1-5% 7631-86-9

Generic bondo formula:
Bondo is based on unsaturated polyester resin, minerals, and glass microspheres. The normal formulation of a lightweight bondo body filler is the following:

unsaturated polyester resin (flexible putty resin) = 40 parts by weight
titanium dioxide (pigment) = 2 parts by weight
styrene monomer (dilutent) = 5 parts by weight
talc powder 200 mesh = 50 parts by weight
fumed silica (Aerosil 200) = 2 part by weight
glass microspheres (scotchlite k 15) = 1 parts by weight
The hardner used depends on the specific type of Bondo. Two of the common types are dibenzoyl peroxide or MEKP paste. MEKP can be dangerous because it burns the skin very easily and is very toxic.

I see no way aluminum powder can add any strength to the bondo. It may make it look silver but will not cross link.

for your intended purpose a bondo material with a glass fiber in it would provide more strength imho.

good luck!
 
#8 ·
It's not that it isn't "popular", it is simply that it is a marketing gimmic for the most part. Don't think you are not using "bondo" when you use it, it is simply silver colored bondo! It has aluminum in it, that's it, done deal.

If you do as Bob said you will have a long lasting job. You could use this filler just like any other filler. The problem with that is, it is a little harder to sand. But you could simply use it just as Bob laid out.

Brian
 
#9 ·
All Metal has been around for years and is good stuff. But it is not ant better than a lot of the products that are out there today. If you have it, use it. I would get the cheese grater type of file to work it down though before it hardens. I have also found that although the workable time frame is not much different than any of the Rage products, the actual dry time is a little longer. And it is harder to sand than most new products. As far as strength, you won't see any difference and shouldn't due to the fact than any filler you use should be put on as thin as possible anyways.
 
#12 ·
wildman1932 said:
We have tried them all, and had poor results in our rod shop. We do not use all metal or like products any longer. They will fail.
Epoxy- them quality fillers applied correctly, will last for decades.
Dave
Dave's Hot Rod Shop KC Mo

That is it in a nutshell, we have all tried them and found them to NOT be the holy grail and not worth the money and not worth the extra work, that is it.

"Alumalead" a PPG product as I remember, oh my God I remember that junk. I was working at a full on resto shop in the seventies and we used it. It was friggin powder that you added a liquid hardener to as I remember. OMG what a pain the rear it was, difficult to mix, difficult to sand.

It is all smoke and mirrors, plain and simple. EVERYONE Of these "reinforced filler" are simply POLYESTER BODY FILLER most have talc, most are nothing more than "bondo" with a little fiberglass strands or aluminum powder thrown in.

YES, the fiberglass reinforced stuff has it's uses, like repairing fiberglass or SMC. But as for the "water proof" and all the other claims they make they are largely BS.

It says "water proof" right on the can of EVERGLASS by Evercoat. I called the tech department and asked if it really was, they said yes, as long as it it primed and top coated...........huh? I said, "cardboard it waterproof if it is primed and topcoated", the guy chuckled a little and agreed.

I know the biggest reason we used the "alumalead" back in the seventies was to give us a "warm gooey" feeling. We metal finished nearly everything using very little filler. The boss wanted to say we used none I guess, so we used this Alumalead and told the customer that it had no "Bondo" on it. :rolleyes:

That is all you get, a warm gooey feeling, nothing else.

Brian
 
#13 ·
wildman1932 said:
We have tried them all, and had poor results in our rod shop. We do not use all metal or like products any longer. They will fail.
Epoxy- them quality fillers applied correctly, will last for decades.
Dave
Dave's Hot Rod Shop KC Mo
Are you talking the epoxy fairing fillers, like used in the marine industry. After I got laid off from the yacht dealer, I got a job for awhile at a metal shop that built some parts for another yacht builder. They used an epoxy filler, that came in two parts you mixed 1 to 1, a brownish red and white gave you a kinda pinkish brown when mixed. Wish I could remember what the brand was, may have been us paints awlfair, I know they used thier paint anyways.
Now that I liked much better then the all metal, but think the stuff is even pricier.
Haven't seen it used in any bodyshops yet, but really kind of understandable when you consider the price, when other fillers work fine when used as they are intended and metal work is done.
 
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