??? Usc All Metal - Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board
Hotrodders.com -- Hot Rod Forum



Register FAQ Search Today's Posts Unanswered Posts Auto Escrow Insurance Auto Loans
Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board > Tech Help> Body - Exterior
User Name
Password
lost password?   |   register now

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 11-20-2008, 09:42 PM
59FLEETSIDE's Avatar
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Junction City KS
Posts: 23
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
??? Usc All Metal

Is anyone familiar with the use of all metal? Im going to try it for som slight dents in the roof. Im trying to go as bondo free as I can. Any good advie on how to use sand and paint over?? Thanks
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 11-20-2008, 09:48 PM
Member
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location:
Posts: 3,707
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Ditch the silver fillers, they offer no benifit IMO after years of testing here in the road salt capital of the world. Lay down two good coats of quality epoxy primer and do your filler work over that, seal with epoxy and finish off with a quality primer surfacer and it'll last a few lifetimes.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 11-21-2008, 04:30 PM
Member
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Green Bay, WI
Age: 43
Posts: 2,073
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts
I am with bob. I use to use a lot of that stuff at an old job. Not a really big fan of it personally. Granted we used it to fair large fabricated aluminum pieces for yachts and mixed up large batches, so for ordinary use shouldn't and smaller areas, shouldn't be a problem, but could be a bit tricky till had some experience to get the right mix of liquid hardener mixing a large batch, to be somewhere between hardening up on you while spreading and never hardening up. Make sure you mix really well, or you will be digging out soft spots. Also want to get on sanding at the right time, can become very hard to sand after its sat long enough.
Needless to say, I prefer a fiberglass filler over all metal (not really a metal filler as they tout to me, just because it has aluminum powder in it for a filler). I think fiberglass filler is more user friendly, easier to work with, and just as good as all metal for applications where you want something a little more water proof then plastic filler, or have a little extra fill thickness. I've also seen all metal have a tendancy to crack, but then it got abused at a bit at the yacht dealer on how thickly it needed to be applied on some of those fabricated parts the welders sent to us. There may be others on the other hand who swear by the all metal fillers.
Best bet is to work out the metal as good as you can, epoxy, and use a minimal thickness of filler like bob said. Regular plastic filler or finishing filler will be fine and should hold up fine, if they are worked out, Properly prepped and metal is not cold, and you don't abuse filler thickness.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 11-21-2008, 05:12 PM
59FLEETSIDE's Avatar
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Junction City KS
Posts: 23
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanks guys, I have a whole gallon of the stuff i bought and well 90 dollars is a lot to waste. Mt htoughts for it were. First in the door jam I had a Huge rust hole about for inches by four inches and once cleaning it out i fabricated and stitch welded in a new piece, It had a lot of bends being in the corner and i was going to use all metal there to make it look like new plus im afraid of someons foot later on hitting it and cracking the fiberglass or plastic filler, The other area I was going to use it was in place of bondo on the new quarter skins where I need minor touch up where i stitch welded them together? Should I abort these Ideas? Thankc Chris
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 11-21-2008, 05:57 PM
wildthing's Avatar
Registered User
 

Last journal entry: running fine
Last photo:
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: chambersburg, pa.
Posts: 223
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
i had planned to use it over the seams of where i welded my new quarter panels on. after talking with several people in the buss they told me to just use duraglass it would give the same results and be easyer to work with.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 11-21-2008, 06:05 PM
Old Fool's Avatar
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: spokane,wa.
Posts: 1,311
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 8
Thanked 31 Times in 29 Posts
A waste of money imho. but you got it so you might as well use it.

here is what it is made of:
================================================== ===================
INGREDIENTS WGT% CAS # TLV/PEL

Styrene 15-25% 100-42-5 OSHA PEL 100 ppm
CPEL 200 ppm
ACGIH: TLV 20 ppm
STEL 100 ppm
See Health Hazard Information

Non-fibrous Talc 15-25% 14807-96-6 ACGIH: TWA 2 mg/m3

OSHA: TLV 20 mppcf

Castor Oil Derivative 0-3% 8001-78-3 OSHA: PEL 15 mg/m3


Aluminum Powder 10-20% 7429-90-5 ACGIH: TWA 10 mg/m3

USC blue ice:
INGREDIENTS WGT% CAS #

Styrene 10-20% 100-42-5

Non-fibrous Talc 30-40% 14807-96-6

Calcium Carbonate Blend 10-20% 1317-65-3, 471-34-1

Glass Beads 5-10% 65997-17-3

Silicon Dioxide Amorphous 1-5% 7631-86-9

USC Pro 7

INGREDIENTS WGT% CAS #

Styrene 10-20% 100-42-5

Non-fibrous Talc 30-40% 14807-96-6

Calcium Carbonate Blend 10-20% 1317-65-3, 471-34-1

Glass Beads 5-10% 65997-17-3

Silicon Dioxide Amorphous 1-5% 7631-86-9

Generic bondo formula:
Bondo is based on unsaturated polyester resin, minerals, and glass microspheres. The normal formulation of a lightweight bondo body filler is the following:

unsaturated polyester resin (flexible putty resin) = 40 parts by weight
titanium dioxide (pigment) = 2 parts by weight
styrene monomer (dilutent) = 5 parts by weight
talc powder 200 mesh = 50 parts by weight
fumed silica (Aerosil 200) = 2 part by weight
glass microspheres (scotchlite k 15) = 1 parts by weight
The hardner used depends on the specific type of Bondo. Two of the common types are dibenzoyl peroxide or MEKP paste. MEKP can be dangerous because it burns the skin very easily and is very toxic.

I see no way aluminum powder can add any strength to the bondo. It may make it look silver but will not cross link.

for your intended purpose a bondo material with a glass fiber in it would provide more strength imho.

good luck!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 11-21-2008, 09:16 PM
59FLEETSIDE's Avatar
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Junction City KS
Posts: 23
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
well thanks i may just set it aside, doesnt sound very popular
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 11-22-2008, 08:01 AM
MARTINSR's Avatar
Brian Martin,Freelance adviser
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: San francisco bay area
Age: 55
Posts: 12,671
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 612
Thanked 945 Times in 845 Posts
It's not that it isn't "popular", it is simply that it is a marketing gimmic for the most part. Don't think you are not using "bondo" when you use it, it is simply silver colored bondo! It has aluminum in it, that's it, done deal.

If you do as Bob said you will have a long lasting job. You could use this filler just like any other filler. The problem with that is, it is a little harder to sand. But you could simply use it just as Bob laid out.

Brian
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 11-23-2008, 05:45 AM
Kevin45's Avatar
Just one of the guys
 

Last journal entry: Garage Toys
Last photo:
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Urbana, Ohio
Age: 57
Posts: 3,055
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 1
Thanked 12 Times in 12 Posts
All Metal has been around for years and is good stuff. But it is not ant better than a lot of the products that are out there today. If you have it, use it. I would get the cheese grater type of file to work it down though before it hardens. I have also found that although the workable time frame is not much different than any of the Rage products, the actual dry time is a little longer. And it is harder to sand than most new products. As far as strength, you won't see any difference and shouldn't due to the fact than any filler you use should be put on as thin as possible anyways.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 11-23-2008, 08:20 AM
302 Z28's Avatar  
Last photo:
Join Date: May 2003
Location: North Texas
Posts: 10,810
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 1
Thanked 81 Times in 68 Posts
There used to be a product called Alumilead(sp), but it was nothing more than aluminum powdered Bondo.

Vince
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 11-23-2008, 08:42 AM
wildman1932's Avatar
Dave's hot Rod Shop
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Kansas City Mo.
Posts: 185
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
We have tried them all, and had poor results in our rod shop. We do not use all metal or like products any longer. They will fail.
Epoxy- them quality fillers applied correctly, will last for decades.
Dave
Dave's Hot Rod Shop KC Mo
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 11-23-2008, 10:23 AM
MARTINSR's Avatar
Brian Martin,Freelance adviser
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: San francisco bay area
Age: 55
Posts: 12,671
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 612
Thanked 945 Times in 845 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by wildman1932
We have tried them all, and had poor results in our rod shop. We do not use all metal or like products any longer. They will fail.
Epoxy- them quality fillers applied correctly, will last for decades.
Dave
Dave's Hot Rod Shop KC Mo

That is it in a nutshell, we have all tried them and found them to NOT be the holy grail and not worth the money and not worth the extra work, that is it.

"Alumalead" a PPG product as I remember, oh my God I remember that junk. I was working at a full on resto shop in the seventies and we used it. It was friggin powder that you added a liquid hardener to as I remember. OMG what a pain the rear it was, difficult to mix, difficult to sand.

It is all smoke and mirrors, plain and simple. EVERYONE Of these "reinforced filler" are simply POLYESTER BODY FILLER most have talc, most are nothing more than "bondo" with a little fiberglass strands or aluminum powder thrown in.

YES, the fiberglass reinforced stuff has it's uses, like repairing fiberglass or SMC. But as for the "water proof" and all the other claims they make they are largely BS.

It says "water proof" right on the can of EVERGLASS by Evercoat. I called the tech department and asked if it really was, they said yes, as long as it it primed and top coated...........huh? I said, "cardboard it waterproof if it is primed and topcoated", the guy chuckled a little and agreed.

I know the biggest reason we used the "alumalead" back in the seventies was to give us a "warm gooey" feeling. We metal finished nearly everything using very little filler. The boss wanted to say we used none I guess, so we used this Alumalead and told the customer that it had no "Bondo" on it.

That is all you get, a warm gooey feeling, nothing else.

Brian
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 11-23-2008, 11:09 AM
Member
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Green Bay, WI
Age: 43
Posts: 2,073
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by wildman1932
We have tried them all, and had poor results in our rod shop. We do not use all metal or like products any longer. They will fail.
Epoxy- them quality fillers applied correctly, will last for decades.
Dave
Dave's Hot Rod Shop KC Mo
Are you talking the epoxy fairing fillers, like used in the marine industry. After I got laid off from the yacht dealer, I got a job for awhile at a metal shop that built some parts for another yacht builder. They used an epoxy filler, that came in two parts you mixed 1 to 1, a brownish red and white gave you a kinda pinkish brown when mixed. Wish I could remember what the brand was, may have been us paints awlfair, I know they used thier paint anyways.
Now that I liked much better then the all metal, but think the stuff is even pricier.
Haven't seen it used in any bodyshops yet, but really kind of understandable when you consider the price, when other fillers work fine when used as they are intended and metal work is done.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #14 (permalink)  
Old 11-23-2008, 12:10 PM
302 Z28's Avatar  
Last photo:
Join Date: May 2003
Location: North Texas
Posts: 10,810
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 1
Thanked 81 Times in 68 Posts
One of the mian suppliers to the marine industry for epoxy is Hexcell. There are others such as West''s Resins.

Vince
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

Recent Body - Exterior posts with photos

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name (usually not your first and last name), your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
"Basics of Basics" Molding repair / metal finishing MARTINSR Body - Exterior 6 07-09-2009 09:47 AM
epoxy or etching primer over bare metal? pineknot Body - Exterior 21 03-16-2007 07:53 PM
sheet metal work robs ss Body - Exterior 2 11-22-2006 04:19 AM
metal finishing pictures sevt_chevelle Body - Exterior 2 11-14-2006 06:09 PM
Welding Books Magnus_Jager General Rodding Tech 6 11-29-2005 03:57 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:47 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
Copyright Hotrodders.com 1999 - 2012. All Rights Reserved.