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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 01-12-2013, 06:42 AM
Mike S.
 
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Years ago a friend of mine built a stout 2.0L Pinto OHC 4banger...Holley 390 CFM..Headers..Fully ported cylinder head...Mallory Unilite distributor...Fully balanced rotating assembly...and an 8LB flywheel...He put this engine into a 1972 Pinto Wagon w/3.55 gears....This car was no slouch...was very quick up through the gears and could hold its own with much larger V8 powered cars of the time like Z28 Camaros, 5.0L mustangs, etc....This was with a smaller displacement engine in a heavier vehicle than what you are planning to use..These little OHCs can be built to scream without any turbos or electronics....We estimated the output of this engine to be around 150-160 HP....and the cam was so radical that the idle speed was at 1200RPMs and very lumpy sounding...It sounded like a dragster!...Don't remember what cam...Its been 25 years or so....but you will like this OHC !!

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  #32 (permalink)  
Old 01-12-2013, 07:57 AM
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But don't get me wrong it is fun. I am not going to put a V8 in this car. I have vehicles for going fast. I don't think as light as this car will be that I need or want 300hp. My intention is for it to be a little differnt and be fun to drive. 140 to 150 hp would be plenty for this light car in my opinion and getting to that number with a turbo and slightly built 2.3L would be easy and very forgiving on the quality of fuel ya get at the pump. And after all it's all about power to weight ratio. If you have a 200hp car that weighs 3300 to 3400 lbs and a under 2000 lbs car with 150 hp and everything else being equal at the drag strip they will run pretty close. With the edge going to the lighter car. But this car is NOT about racing. It's about fun and the question I posed was to find someone that had run this engine will a slight build in a true lightweight car. And to get info on building the engine for what I want. And I wish to thank the folks that have contributed to those ends. I am know for doing differnt things. And have considered at one point and time since I have a background in Marine turbine propulsion too. of putting a turbine in the car. But dismissed that idea because of the cost. And it would be too complicated for a fun car. So I'm back to my first question has anyone done this that's on this site that could share their opinions on the results. Thanks Bill
I've done an NA build you can PM me about, I've done a lot of research into going turbo with it but haven't gone that route yet.
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old 01-12-2013, 10:21 AM
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Stick to your guns Iron pony. Lots of good info here, despite some of the bickering and wizzin matches that tend to go on.
I was hoping you didnt get turned off by all they machismo head banging here. It certainly turned me off.
All the guys here have posted useful info, i just cant understand why they let there attitudes get into the mix.
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old 01-12-2013, 10:49 AM
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Originally Posted by hcompton View Post
Then a completely stock swap is best. I would get a donor car that has the turbo motor running and ready to go. Even in fair condition they dont go for too much cash so get one with a good motor even if it means scrapping a nice car. Merkur svo and the turbo coupe will have the best setups. Intercolled is best but not really important for you power level.

You will need the stock computer it is boost reference and will add fuel and retard timing as boost comes up. Works very well so no need to rebuild the wireing or use megasquirt its just too much to build for a car that does it from the factory with similair performance. Use the factory wiring harness as well. Then simply bolt it up and wire it up. Plug it in. Not easy but not reall difficult either the hard part the efi setup is done and turbo ready every thing else is plumbing and welding.

Be sure the fuel system will support the efi motor.

Keep the motor completely stock for 170 hp And plenty of tq. But very tame and easy to use and easy on the car. Also hook up the low octane fuel switch. Retards ten degrees so it will run on any swell you end up with in the tank. For the most part stock boost will run on. Good 87 and any super. Not like some turbo cars that are real fuel snobs these run on just about anything.

Not that you need it but the car will run much better and will be much easier to tune with an MS1 setup, which are dirt cheap. Not only will you be able to make more power but you can also do mods for better durability and mileage.

Also, something to consider even with an otherwise stock system is a turbo header and a free flowing exhaust, really makes any turbo engine come alive.
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  #35 (permalink)  
Old 01-12-2013, 12:51 PM
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Remember this....less weight plus more horsepower equals fast....simple physics.
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old 01-12-2013, 01:22 PM
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So are planning to build the motor or find a donor? If you do plan on building a 2.3 I've built many N/A versions for local circle track racers. I can give you some good do's and don'ts to save you some grief.
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  #37 (permalink)  
Old 01-12-2013, 06:06 PM
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2.3 in rod

to engineczar I think as I will have a exposed engine with no hood I am leaning towards building my own. As I have access to a cnc milling machine I would try to build a pan and rocker cover and timing belt covers from aluminum. and smoothing the block. I have built a stainless turbo manifold for a 4bt cummins from heavy wall pipe with very good results. And think I will do that on this engine. Because it needs to look good. As for how much to build up the engine I was thinking of keeping the comp. low in the 8.6 to 1 range and using a mild cam. Keeping the boost under about 8 lbs. and using a 390 cfm 2 barrel carb. That should have no problems getting me to my horsepower levels and should be very drivable. And live for a long time. But I am willing to hear your thoughts on this. Thanks Bill
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old 01-12-2013, 06:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Ironpony View Post
to engineczar I think as I will have a exposed engine with no hood I am leaning towards building my own. As I have access to a cnc milling machine I would try to build a pan and rocker cover and timing belt covers from aluminum. and smoothing the block. I have built a stainless turbo manifold for a 4bt cummins from heavy wall pipe with very good results. And think I will do that on this engine. Because it needs to look good. As for how much to build up the engine I was thinking of keeping the comp. low in the 8.6 to 1 range and using a mild cam. Keeping the boost under about 8 lbs. and using a 390 cfm 2 barrel carb. That should have no problems getting me to my horsepower levels and should be very drivable. And live for a long time. But I am willing to hear your thoughts on this. Thanks Bill
DON'T GO CARBED. There are so many EFI parts out there that it doesn't make sense to run a carb- ESPECIALLY if you're running a forced induction application.

If you're that good at fabricating I'd look into building a tuned runner EFI manifold, make it out of aluminum and polish it up to sparkle nice. It'll be top notch for both function and form.
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old 01-12-2013, 06:52 PM
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Originally Posted by hcompton View Post
The efi motor has a funky look. Its like an old art deco looking manifold and the valve cover has ford efi turbo on tje froont and looks cool. The none intercooled model has a finned aluminum tube coming off the turbo and a rubber expanding joint the swells under boost its an easy convert to strange and old looking with the stock efi. A little polish and nice manifold and paint this could look pretty cool. Carb may also look cool if it was stnding stright up off thencarb in a draw thru setup. Maybe even on top of a large pipe.

If i wanted to build a funky looking engine the ford 2.3 efi has got to be a good place to start short of a 928 spider looking thing. I bet it would look steam punk ish and still be efi and oem relaible.

But you probably got something completely differnet in mind. The strange intake on the efi is not for everyone for sure.
which efi intake? I think there's 4 different versions. Any of them polieshed up would look cool, but that's a lot of damn time polishing.
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  #40 (permalink)  
Old 01-13-2013, 11:22 PM
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Uhhh I can squeal the tires and then some in a stock NA 2.3 from the 70s (not even 100hp) in my pinto with 3.00 gears. I dont buy for a second that the 2.3T can barely do that. Thats double the HP and TQ.

What have YOU been smoking, spinn? I think you're speaking from "what you've heard" rather than experience.

Yes there is room for improvement, as the 2.3T is lower compression, batch fire fuel injected, Single non roller cam without variable timing, etc.

For comparison the new Ford Ecoboost engines run 10:1 compression plus 12-ish psi boost, with high pressure (2500psi) direct fuel injection (like a diesel) and twin independent variable camshaft timing. Plus they have more precise fuel and spark control than the old 2.3L doesnt have.
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  #41 (permalink)  
Old 01-13-2013, 11:27 PM
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What a waste of a turbo, 200hp. The 2.0 honda K makes that NA.
The 200hp honda 2 liters are also VTEC engines with high performance camshaft profiles and other more performance oriented parts.
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Old 01-14-2013, 09:11 AM
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2.3L in a rod.

Many thanks to all who have responded to this thread. I have decided to go with a 2.3 with a turbo. For many reasons number one being a lightweight engine in a lightweight car. My fore to aft balance will be closer to 50/50 and that will help with handling. After hearing some of the suggestions here I'm going to aim for about 200hp using fuel injection. This should yield a very reliable good handling car that's very fun to drive. Exactly what I want from this project. And yes there will be many cars out there that are faster, including my El camino! And as light as it will be I figure about 1900 lbs. That works out to about 9.5 lbs. per horsepower. And that works out to being only about 1 pound per hp. behind My El Camino. And that is very good numbers. That puts the performance right in the middle of the vast majority of hot rods out there. The whole idea behind this car is to make it very user friendly that way it gets drove alot. I will use it as a shop truck often, but my wife may want to use it to go to town to shop, or my daughter may use it. And since most of My cars in the past and probably in the future have been nothing but race cars thinly disguised as street cars that were hard to live with on the street. This should be a fun car to drive. Thanks Bill
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  #43 (permalink)  
Old 01-14-2013, 09:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Ironpony View Post
Many thanks to all who have responded to this thread. I have decided to go with a 2.3 with a turbo. For many reasons number one being a lightweight engine in a lightweight car. My fore to aft balance will be closer to 50/50 and that will help with handling. After hearing some of the suggestions here I'm going to aim for about 200hp using fuel injection. This should yield a very reliable good handling car that's very fun to drive. Exactly what I want from this project. And yes there will be many cars out there that are faster, including my El camino! And as light as it will be I figure about 1900 lbs. That works out to about 9.5 lbs. per horsepower. And that works out to being only about 1 pound per hp. behind My El Camino. And that is very good numbers. That puts the performance right in the middle of the vast majority of hot rods out there. The whole idea behind this car is to make it very user friendly that way it gets drove alot. I will use it as a shop truck often, but my wife may want to use it to go to town to shop, or my daughter may use it. And since most of My cars in the past and probably in the future have been nothing but race cars thinly disguised as street cars that were hard to live with on the street. This should be a fun car to drive. Thanks Bill
You're setting awfully low goals, even a 300hp version can be done with a stock cam and great street manners. If you're going to use a completely stock junkyard engine then it'll put out 200hp, but if you modify it at all I would be expecting much biggger numbers.
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Old 01-14-2013, 09:27 AM
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2.3L in a rod.

Before it comes up I thought I would post a pict of My El Camino It is a 68 malibu that I got without a engine. It has a 383 in it that made 440 hp on the dyno before it was put in the car. It has a built TH400 and a 9" ford in the back and no I'm not finished with it. It is currently in my shop getting a new paint job. Because it got caught in one of Oklahoma's hard rains (Hail storm) last year. This is what is keeping me from working on my C cab. And as you can see I got one or two skills. I will also post a pict of my mechanic truck. It is a 2002 T300 Kenworth. Thanks Bill
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  #45 (permalink)  
Old 01-14-2013, 11:56 AM
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Bill,
I agree so much with what you have in mind for this build. My current build is getting a stock 472 Cad just because the big Cad has plenty and will give good street manners and still burn up some tires should I desire. Some days a neat car with good manners is just what the doc ordered..

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