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Old 02-12-2005, 11:08 PM
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using primer question

Hello, just a few questions on primer...

#1) I bought some primer at my local body shop, I'm not sure if it is compatable with a BC/CC though, it is DuaBuild Premium high build Arcylic Primer Surfacer made by evercoat (#2273) do I need a certain type of paint .... arcylic , epoxy, urathane ) I am not painting untill spring but I thought i'd check

#2) The primer is suposed 2 be mixed 1.25 to 1 (reducer to primer) I mixed it 1:1 like the bodyguy said and it seemed very thin to me, almost like water, maybey thinner, can I thicken it more so its more high build? kinda like thick milk maybey? also I have a 1.4mm HVLP which i used and also a 2.0mm gravity feed which i'll try next time.


#3) Also is it bad if i sprayed some duplicolor high build primer from a rattler and before that a little regular autmotive primer before I layed down the durabuild?

Thanks for everyone answering all my numerous newbie questions

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Old 02-13-2005, 09:57 AM
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Re: using primer question

Quote:
Originally posted by AdamZx23



#3) Also is it bad if i sprayed some duplicolor high build primer from a rattler and before that a little regular autmotive primer before I layed down the durabuild?

Thanks for everyone answering all my numerous newbie questions
#3 is a definate no-no. I would not rely on that rattle can primer as a good base for the build primer.

Vince
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Old 02-13-2005, 10:27 AM
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That primer is a lacquer primer, the bottom of the technolgy bucket. I didn't even know Evercoat sold such a beast. You should move on up to a 2K epoxy, urethane or ISO free 2K of some sort, it is miles above the lacquer in filling and durability.

If you mixed it 1.25 :1 it would fill much better though.


note: Do not let this primer sit out in the rain or drive the car during the rain, lacquer primer is porus and it is not insoluable to gas or other solvents.
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Old 02-13-2005, 12:30 PM
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oh man i paid 9 bucks for a quart of that stuff too

also it isnt for a car just for a fiberglass part that will be inside the car, so it wont ever get wet, I sanded as much of the rattle primer as I could without creating dips, i would say 1/4 of the surface is rattle primer and rest is raw fiberglass. I hope it wont lift later on.

also how would adding more reducer to it make it fill better? from the can it says 1.25 reducer to 1 part 2273 primer...maybey it would though??

2nd what is a good easy primer to use? I really dont want to mess with a hardener just yet, is there a single stage urathane?

Man i cant wait to use a better primer if this stuff sucks This stuff is soooo much easier to sand than rattle primer and when you sand it down you can see it actually fills the scatches and really smooths it out.
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Old 02-13-2005, 01:23 PM
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If this is an interior part, the lacquer isn't such a bad choice. It is a good product to "get your feet wet".

As far as the reduction, 1.25:1 would be 1.25 primer to 1 part reducer. If it says the reducer comes first, that would be a first for me. The main product always comes first in the mixing ratio.

1.25 primer to 1. reducer would "thicken" the sprayable primer.
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Old 02-13-2005, 03:40 PM
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ooh ic what you mean now, the can says :

1-1/4 : 1 and has two rectangles around them signifing the difference in amout of product and underneath that it says:

1-1/4 Part 2294
1 Part 2273


The can says Evercoat #2273
and my reducer is a different brand in a gallon can (is this bad for primer?)

I'll try to make it a little thicker tonight and test it, with a 2mm tip it shouldnt be a problem, I should prob. let it flash longer?
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Old 02-13-2005, 06:18 PM
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What "reducer" are you talking about? What brand, how do you know it is right?

2mm tip is BIG and you will really be pouring on the material. Do you have a smaller tip or gun?
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Old 02-13-2005, 06:25 PM
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I think it says universal laquer thinner I'll go check when I go out there tonight.

I have a 1.4mm HVLP gun, though I have a small compressor so it really sucks the air, the manual says my gravity feed has a .082" nozzle, which converts to 1.999 mm on google
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Old 02-13-2005, 09:18 PM
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In all reality you wouldn't even need the thinner if your gun would put the primer on whithout it. Reduce the amount of thinner in your mix till you get the coverage you need if your gun will still spray the product on smooth. Give it plent of flash time between coats- that thinner needs to evaporate and the more flash time you give the better.
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Old 02-13-2005, 10:44 PM
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I just checked it out tonight....its a arcylic laquer thinner made by dupont. Thats just what the guy at my local body shop gave me, and he said to mix it 1:1. Is there something else I should have used?

Also I used the gravity gun with the 2mm tip......wow what a dissapointment that thing is a turd. It was a gravity fed gun from harbor freight that my dad bought, it just seemed to dump the paint on without really getting much on the fiberglass, i thickened the primer to the consistancy of thin housepaint, I dont know if maybey that was the culpret. I never knew my HF HVLP gun was so much nicer in paint usage and ease of use lol definatly using that next time.
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Old 02-14-2005, 08:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by baddbob
In all reality you wouldn't even need the thinner if your gun would put the primer on whithout it. Reduce the amount of thinner in your mix till you get the coverage you need if your gun will still spray the product on smooth. Give it plent of flash time between coats- that thinner needs to evaporate and the more flash time you give the better.
Bob, an old mentor of mine used to say "thinner is your best friend to help you get it on, then it is your worse enemy."

You do need the thinner, it helps the product dry. A lot of the thinner is flashing off each particle of primer AS it is hitting the panel. If you were to take lacquer primer and brush it on without adding any thinner, you would have a seriously soft film for a LONG time, it may never dry at the bottom. It really does need the thinner to help it keep the "door open" until all the thinner can get out. If you had no thinner the top would seal off, closing the "door" and trapping all the thinner that is in the primer to keep it liquid in the film.

There is a very fine line between too much and too little thinner vs the flash time amounts. This is one of the things I have been talking about with flash times, gun speed, gun set up, reducer temp,etc. There is a "happy point" between all these things that allows the most solvents to flash off.

Brian

Quote:
Originally posted by AdamZx23
I just checked it out tonight....its a arcylic laquer thinner made by dupont. Thats just what the guy at my local body shop gave me, and he said to mix it 1:1. Is there something else I should have used?

Also I used the gravity gun with the 2mm tip......wow what a dissapointment that thing is a turd. It was a gravity fed gun from harbor freight that my dad bought, it just seemed to dump the paint on without really getting much on the fiberglass, i thickened the primer to the consistancy of thin housepaint, I dont know if maybey that was the culpret. I never knew my HF HVLP gun was so much nicer in paint usage and ease of use lol definatly using that next time.
Like Bob said, you can adjust the thinner amount. It isn't critical like with a hardener in a 2K product, that you have to mix RIGHT ON. More or less to get it to spray nice is fine.

I am trying to remember how I use to mix lacquer primer.......I haven't sprayed it in about 15 years.....I think 1:1 or 1.25:1. Of course we didn't use those terms back then, it was 100% or 125% reduction. That DuPont thinner is probably a higher quality thinner anyway, should work fine.

Last edited by MARTINSR; 02-14-2005 at 08:35 AM.
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Old 02-14-2005, 11:06 AM
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wow thanks guys I have learned so much from this place, its nice to have a place to ask the pro's...even if they live across the country

speaking of is there any other autobody forums that I can soak some more knowledge up? I tried searching but I couldnt find any forums devotedto just autobody
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Old 02-14-2005, 12:13 PM
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Why? The BEST are HERE..

http://www.paintucation.com/

http://www.autobodystore.com/cgi-bin/config.pl?index

Here's a couple.
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Old 02-14-2005, 03:11 PM
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Years and years ago while in Auto Body School, (Ferris State) the instructors wouldn't let us use laquer putty or glazing putty. Unfortunately at that time I was accustomed to using these products and the lacquer primer alone wouldn't provide enough build. So I improvised, I squeegeed on some unreduced laquer primer right in front of the instructors eyes. I applied it as though it was glaze. Not the correct thing to do but I didn't have any problems with the job later on.

I once did a candy laquer job years ago that I sprayed for almost 10 hours straight. From the silver base and other colors then candy then laquer clear all in one day. There was so much material applied to that car that the solvents evaporating from the base and candy allowed me to apply the clear coat unreduced. I sprayed the clear directly out of the can. The car sat for over a month while the interior was being built then I colorsanded and buffed it out. The owner took it to Nevada when he moved and ended up blowing the Muncie transmission which disabled the car for three years. There it sat cooking in the Hot Nevada sun for three years without any maintainance. I was worried the paint may look like a dried lake bottom with cracks from one end to the other but when he returned to this area the car looked fine. The clear used was Dupont's 380S if I rememeber correctly. Two gallons of unreduced clear was applied. The paint lasted for over ten years and was sold to a person in Washington. I really think the amount of thinner used in the old laquer products greatly influenced the product's lifespan, an old timer once told me that the thinner can actually make some of the important resins evaporate if too much is used. I really don't know for sure but I did see excellent results when thinner was reduced or completely left out. ?????????

Will a laquer product dry without the use of thinner? Absolutely
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Old 02-14-2005, 08:18 PM
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You can't argue with success. You make sense in the putty, that "glazing putty" is simply lacquer primer anyway.

How in the heck did you spray that clear unthinned? I mean, that is how you did the "cob web" custom paint was to spray the lacquer unthinned. I shot a zillion lacquer paint jobs and never tried what you did so I have no idea how it would work.

I do know that by all accounts it should have looked like a river bed after a few months in the sun, so you must have done something right!

Last edited by MARTINSR; 02-14-2005 at 09:23 PM.
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