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Old 07-16-2007, 08:55 PM
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using a respirator

Heres a few things that you should consider before using a respirator.

As a rule some type of respirator is usually better then none at all.

Respirator protection factors range from 50 to 2000, the higher the number, the better protection.

These numbers are assigned assuming you have been trained and fit tested on the particular respirator you have chosen.

To be fit tested and trained you will usualy need a good selection of respirators, because of facial structure. They have to find one to fit that ugly mug.

A decent fit test involves a machine with a tube attached to the respirator and thats hooked up to a computer, then they can see how much leakage you have around the face mask sealing area, called the seal.

Then while you are hooked up to this machine you will have to talk, squint, turn your head side to side, see if the seal leaks.

Well were not in a perfect world so were going down to the local fleet farm or auto parts/auto body store and take what they got, and they will work.

To get some of your moneys worth out of this respirator, you need to know a couple of things.

Get a clean shave, and I'm not talking hanging out all day at your regular job then coming home to actually do some real work. If you shaved that morning, you should shave again.

If you can take that maxed out credit card, if your doing a body off its either maxed out or close to it, and take the edge of it and scrape it up the side of your face and hear a little noise, you need a shave. Yeah, you blonde guys to, just because you can't see that peach fuzz, doesn't mean it isn't there.

If you wear glasses you probably won't get a good seal, they make respirator inserts that don't have any bows, and they clip inside the respirator, and yeah they suck to wear, they don't like to stay were there supposed to.

I've been out of the work force, or rather chain gang for three years, but I think they have some different kind of bows that might work for your glasses, wait, just ask the clerk at the discount auto parts, she'll be right up to date on all this OSHA stuff.

So we use our regular glasses, might leak a little.

Well lets put it on and hold the palm of our hand over the hole that lets the air in, and breathe in and see if we are sucking any air around the outside of it, good to go, wheres that filter thats says it will protect me from a dozen abbreviations I don't have a clue means.

Not done yet, goldilocks, that wisp of hair ( you old guys ) have that you comb forward, pull that up and out of the top of your respirator.

Into the tent we go, she may be duct taped to the ceiling, along with the old squirrel cage you got out of an abandoned high end chicken coop, and there saying ten grand for a paint job, we'll see about that.

Its a pretty good bet that we may have somebody out side the tent that we can yell at, for who knows what, but somebodys gonna hear it, because after about a half hour when he gets sweated up in there, he's gonna get aggravated.

Description of who you would like to yell at, your wife, one of your kids, drunken buddy, or drunk buddy, or maybe the guy that owns the little jewel you offered to paint.

But hold on here, when you have that respirator on, don't raise your voice, don't wrinkle your face up any more then it is allready, just a squint can break that seal. Don't be moving around real fast, you can get tired pretty quick with a respirator on, and we only have a little bit of clear, so not much to sand, go slow and keep the dust down.

Don't turn your head to far sideways or up and down to much, this will also break the seal.

Oh, one last thing, a friend of mine has a really big beard, and I asked him why he wanted a respirator, he said nevermind, just give it to me.

He puts that on, and were painting red, when he comes out all around the edge of his beard is pretty red, wheres shes sucking some air. Well he did get some protection, and thats pretty much the deal on a regular respirator, you get some protection, some a little better then others, and some not.

So the moral of this story, try and use a respirator while grinding and painting and welding. If you want the most out of it, take a few minutes once in a while and read about using respirators. But give yourself some protection, and that goes for rattle canning also, that stuff will get you to.

Rob
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Old 07-16-2007, 10:09 PM
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respirator

Hi Rob,you sound like you know what youre talking about. heres my problem. i have a hole in my throat that i breathe through,caused by cancer from Agent Orange. any suggestions??? thank you
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Old 07-16-2007, 10:59 PM
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Boatbob2

First, I'm really sorry to hear that Agent Orange got to you, we forget all to fast about the troops that took care of us. Thank you for your sacrifice.

I would think that a supplied air hood would be in order for you. They are long enough to cover it. I use an SAS supplied air system with a paper hood, that type will work, and possibly others.

I have a few write ups on it and pictures of the pump itself on my website, as well as some information on supplied air. I believe the pump is on my paint room section.
Good luck to you, and thanks again.

Rob

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Old 07-17-2007, 02:24 PM
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I put using a respirator on four forums, and I think I need to explain this a little better. One person had a question about the shaving and the squirrel cage, kind of joking that I may have inhaled to many fumes, I probably have, but that tells me that putting some humor with it, it might sound like its not the real deal to some people.

So, heres my response, I'll just take parts of it and copy and paste.

================================================== ==Sometimes if you throw a little humor into something, people will remember it better, and you bringing this up, tells me you and probably others got something out of it.

I put it on four forums, and I checked it about six hours later, had a quite a few views and maybe four responses. So after looking at all the views, I thought, I wonder what they think, and did I waste my time.

Before I forget, thank you for your response.

The last place I worked, they trained us on it, and tested us, so we had to read it and pay attention. Reading about protection factors, and different respirators for this and that, nobody wants to read that. I never did, I had to, and they didn't use any humor when they taught it.

You brought up a couple of good points.

The shaving twice in the same day, you can still get a good seal if you don't, but a lot of times you can't, a little shaving stubble will make a difference.

The department I worked in, was responsible for fit testing and issuing respirators, doing the maintenance on them, and issuing the right type filters.

A fit test would take a few minutes, and we would get a list in the morning, and what time each one was supposed to get tested.

If the machine picked up a certain amount of leakage around the seal, we would retest, tighten the straps, or maybe try a different type respirator, anyway after a couple of failures, you are getting behind, and all of a sudden you have people showing up for there scheduled time, and it gets a little hectic.

We wouldn't let anybody test that didn't have a clean shave, or looked like they didn't shave that morning, because we knew we were wasting our time, and they knew the chance of passing was pretty remote.

On more then one occasion, a group of maybe 4 or 5 guys would come down to get respirators, all dressed in coveralls, tools ready to go. They had to see us for a respirator, we would look at there faces to see if we could see any stubble, and if we could, they would have to hold everybody up to shave, or go one short.

This is getting kind of long winded, but maybe its worth telling.

This is in a nuclear power plant where you are monitored for contamination when you leave a work site.

So, Some guys you issed respirators are coming out of the work area, and one of them sets off a contamination monitor, it could be he got a little bit on his fingers, or maybe his respirator leaked, you can't see the contamination, so you use a meter to frisk him. And our department had to do the paperwork and help clean him up, which was usually pretty quick, but after you get a couple of contamination reports, things aren't looking good , so it makes you keep an eye on things.

The part about the duct tape and squirrel cage, I was just pointing out that everybody doesn't have a down draft booth to get rid of some of the fumes, and I have duct taped plastic to the sealing to make me a spray booth, and the squirrel cage out of an old furnace blower has been used before.

Sorry for being long winded, and thanks again for your response.

Rob

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Old 07-18-2007, 12:20 AM
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Thanks for this. What are your recomdations for those of us who have had full beards for 40+ years and will not be shaving in the near future. Could you go into the different types of supplied air systems and their value to the hobbyist.
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Old 07-18-2007, 12:39 AM
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For starters heres some info off my web site.


HERE'S SOME ON SUPPLIED AIR

There is a big difference in supplied air and scba (self contained breathing apparatus).
The scba can be worn in an oxygen deficient atmosphere, supplied air should never be
worn in this atmosphere

Respirators, supplied air, scba all have protection factors. I'm not going into
all of that.

Supplied air can be used with a half or full face respirator or a hood.

I use a sas system, and I don't care what system you buy, this one works good,
but it's a few years old, there are other name brands out there, probably one
as good as the other.

I use the hood with my supplied air, for a couple of reasons, one is I have been
in a full face respirator hooked up to supplied air on many occasions, and I don't
like to have my chin floating in my own sweat over a four hour period, I have worn
all types of respirators.

The paper hood is lighter, cooler on your face, don't have to shave, they are nice
to use. You can talk and squint and you don't have to worry about breaking your seal.

Use caution when placing your supplied air pump, remember it's sucking in the air
that you will be breathing, like no cars running around it, mine's in a back room
in my house and I can tell what we're having for supper.

This is just a little basic overview, some of our body shop experts have put out
some real good informatioin on respirators, it wouldn't hurt to look up some of
their threads before you start painting or have a lot of rust and filler in the air.

On my web site you will see the air pump for my supplied air system, we had
environmental air samplers where I used to work, and we learned how to maintain
and repair this same type of air pump, they're heavy and can be moved to wherever
you want to, I usually leave mine where it is, it is okay with up to 100' of hose.

I've used it a lot, and never had a problem.

If you buy a supplied air outfit with the hood, the hoods are made of a thicker
type paper and are strong but light. They scratch easy on the face piece, so buy
a bunch of extra films that stick over the face piece, then a hood will last
quite a long time.

I wear levis, a tee shirt and sweatshirt and buy the cheaper paper suits at
building supply places or your body shop place, vinyl or rubber gloves taped
to the paper suit with the hood just tucked inside the paper suit and zipped
up tight. I always come out clean.

Take care of your respirators, and supplied air and lines and pump, these are
the best tools you will ever buy for this kind of work, keep them boxed or wrapped
up, but keep them clean.

Hope some of this will help somebody, it's a little difficult to write up with just
the highlights, there is so much information out there on this.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

FRESH AIR RESPIRATORS

Heres what I use and it works really good, I guess the nicest thing about it,
is you can stand in there as long as you want, don't smell anything, and you
don't have the fatigue you get with a full or half face respirator.

I have worn respirators in my job in a power plant for the last twenty years,
this included a lot of training in scba, supplied air, positive pressure, negative
pressure, battery operated respirators, everything out there and how to use and
wear them, inspect them, blah blah blah.

Am I an authority on them? No, but this unit here works, and you can see with your
glasses on, no fogging up, I love it.

Spend the money and do it right, you won't be sorry.

Hope this gives you a little more information, Rob.


SAS #9800-18 System
Includes
# SAS 9820-00 3/4HP Oil-less Air Pump
#SAS 9852-42 50 Feet Lightweight Breathing Air Line
#SAS 9818-00 Supplied Air Hood with Belt
#SAS 9700-56 Booth Installation Kit

Order Lens Covers #SAS 9818-20 Pkg of 10
Replacement Hood #SAS 9818-10

You put this on, a cheap paper suit, rubber or vinyl gloves, you will come out clean.

One other thing, get yourself a runner if you are going to paint, they can mix the
paint, help you out, a good runner is as good as the painter.

Rob


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Old 07-18-2007, 01:43 AM
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Home Brew, I looked at google, and there is just to much stuff to read on all of them, but the system I have has the same type pump our environmental and in plant samplers use on around the clock running. I can't imagine wearing out this pump. I know it looks like, because I have an sas unit, I'm prejudice. But thats not the case at all, I really like this system, I use it for everything.

We did a lot of in and out of plant air sampling, from little samplers, diameter wise, to large ones, called high and low volume samplers.

These had a paper type filter on the outside and a charcoal cannister on the inside.

Sometimes if a guy was welding or grinding on a pipe we would pull a 10 minute high volume sample, these samplers would whine pretty loud when you run them, and after 10 minutes, sometimes that outside paper would be black.

Sometimes if you were in an area that there wasn't anywork going on, and run one, you could barely or not hardly see what was the inside or outside of the paper, it looked so clean, but we were looking for airborne contamination, to determine if a guy needed a repirator or not, or maybe supplied air, to be in that area, looking or working.

I will get to the point here in a minute, I know, blah blah blah, but my kids are all raised, and the wife won't listen to me, so I can imagine somebody is while i'm typing this.

These charcoals cannisters behind the paper filter on these samplers were sent to chemistry to determine what was in the air. And they looked for everything, you would get a big printout to show you.

We would run the paper through a monitor to give a quick check on what it had, then that also went to chemistry.

After looking at all types of samples over twenty years in a power plant, and looking at these paper filters, and how some were dirty looking and what not, you look at respirators a little different .

Trying to justify around $1000 bucks give or take for an air supply, thats a hard pill to swallow. Now if you just use a respirator, of which you can't because of your beard, if you do it right you will be buying a lot of filters for it.

I don't have a lot of money, my wife never worked, and we had four children, so if I buy something that expensive, it better be for a good reason.

The reason I bought it was because of what I have seen through the respirator and air sampling hiatus. And everybody uses the word isocyanates, thats a bad one, but if a body man saw a printout of what was in just the rust alone, it would make him go for the supplied air.

Anyway Home Brew, google up some supplied air systems, then get that wallet out, and come off that cash, keeps the beard clean to.

Rob

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Old 07-18-2007, 02:07 AM
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Thanks for the info. I will be looking very closely at these in the near future.
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Old 08-23-2007, 01:44 PM
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Wife dont listen to me either

The first time I sprayed my truck I used a drywall dust mask in my garage. DUMB! I paint houses, use a lot of stains, etc. but a good repirator is mandatory, unless your just trying to commit suicide. The second time I painted my truck (orange peel ), I went to DUnn-Edwards and got a respirator for about $40. If I sprayed a lot of auto paint, I think it would be mandatory to get one that pumps in air to you. But, if you spray with a good respirator that does NOT pump in fresh air, two things should be done. First, keep your filters clean and replaced. And second, after you shoot, get out. Let the dust settle so to speak. Now, these guys in this forum know way more about auto paint then I do, so listen to the pros. After getting solid tips from pros, my FOURTH time I shot my truck it came out pretty good. Without that respirator, I dont think I would have survived the second time. Good luck. Youll need it with auto paint.
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Old 08-23-2007, 01:56 PM
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In addition to a good respirator you need to cover all bare skin. The nasty stuff in catalyzed clear will absorb through your skin.

Vince
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Old 08-23-2007, 06:31 PM
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I use vaseline on my face where it contacts the mask. Helps with the seal.
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