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V8 1973 VW Beetle Project

825K views 836 replies 88 participants last post by  V8 Super Beetle 
#1 · (Edited)
Hello all!

I'm in the process of building a V8 Bug out of my 1973 VW Super Beetle. I know this is possible because it's been done before. I'm on the v8bugs.com forum where you can find a handle full of example and different ways to accomplish this, but I still have questions. There's a lot more traffic here so hopefully I can get some help. I'm pretty much a beginner hot rodder that's a DYI kinda guy.

I'm looking into building a custom 2"x3" tube chassis for my build. I've took some measurements from my bug and designed a chassis in Illustrator to size. I'm trying to design the frame so it'll use the stock suspension up front.

I currently have a 283 SBC and th350 to put into the bug, but at the moment the motor is the block, with pistons and all, and heads. The motor is at my old mans (he works nights) so I don't have access to measure the motor off for mounting and what not.

Could anyone tell me, ballpark figure, about how much distance I'll need from each frame rail to fit the engine with mounts and shorty headers?

Here's my frame design, the distance between each frame rail is exactly 27.5". Also I intend on mounting the motor to the crossmembers that hold in the front control arms / suspension. Is this enough distance? Could I bring the distance between the two main frame rails closer? How should I mount the engine to the cross member with then motor mounts I have (see picture below)?



Here's some pics of my beetle and progress. I'm still working on cutting out the trunk!





 
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#530 ·
NO SHROUD IS NEEDED - THE OUTER EDGE OF YOUR FAN IS THE SHROUD. ITS IS NEAR FLUSH TO THE RADIATOR SO A SHROUD WOULD ONLY DIRECT AIR AFTER THE FAN, NOT INCREASE COOLING. IF THE FAN WERE MOUNTED AWAY FROM THE RADIATOR, LEAVING A GAP TO FILL, THEN A SHROUD WOULD BE NEEDED. HAVING A FAN IN A POSITION AWAY FROM THE RADIATOR AND THEN SHROUDING UP TO THE FULL SURROUND OF THE COOLING FINS WOULD BE OPTIMUM, BUT YOU DON'T HAVE THE ROOM FOR IT.

THE INLINE COOLING FILL NECK IS A GREAT IDEA.

JUST REMEMBER THAT THE FILLER MUST BE AT THE HIGHEST POINT IN THE COOLING SYSTEM, OR THE HIGHEST POINT MUST HAVE A BLEEDER. YOU MAY ALSO STILL HAVE TO USE A VACUUM POWERED COOLING SYSTEM FILL TOOL.

CHEERS ... KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK AND I'LL KEEP MY EYE OUT FOR MORE BITS AND PIECES :thumbup:
 
#531 ·
HYBRIDR-TELE said:
NO SHROUD IS NEEDED - THE OUTER EDGE OF YOUR FAN IS THE SHROUD. ITS IS NEAR FLUSH TO THE RADIATOR SO A SHROUD WOULD ONLY DIRECT AIR AFTER THE FAN, NOT INCREASE COOLING. IF THE FAN WERE MOUNTED AWAY FROM THE RADIATOR, LEAVING A GAP TO FILL, THEN A SHROUD WOULD BE NEEDED. HAVING A FAN IN A POSITION AWAY FROM THE RADIATOR AND THEN SHROUDING UP TO THE FULL SURROUND OF THE COOLING FINS WOULD BE OPTIMUM, BUT YOU DON'T HAVE THE ROOM FOR IT.

THE INLINE COOLING FILL NECK IS A GREAT IDEA.

JUST REMEMBER THAT THE FILLER MUST BE AT THE HIGHEST POINT IN THE COOLING SYSTEM, OR THE HIGHEST POINT MUST HAVE A BLEEDER. YOU MAY ALSO STILL HAVE TO USE A VACUUM POWERED COOLING SYSTEM FILL TOOL.

CHEERS ... KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK AND I'LL KEEP MY EYE OUT FOR MORE BITS AND PIECES :thumbup:
Thanks, that makes since. I'll look into seeing if there's not a scrap piece of aluminum I could use here at work to construct a shroud. If not, I'll see how it does without one. I can always add one a little later on.

Is that something any service station could do, or you could help me out with? The vacuum system fill.

Keep me posted on your project. I'll send you some v8 bug links here in a moment.

I appreciate all your help! :pimp:
 
#534 ·
Most any RV supply store will have a selection of 12v water pumps you can use to transfer coolant to and from the rear.

About the r&p. I think you're gonna be in trouble with bump steer. You can't go puttin' any old rack in there and you can't go whittlin' on the tie rods to make it fit. Do as you please, but I've been there, done that and I think you're settin' yourself up for a letdown. Keep the stock steering in it is my best advice.
 
#535 ·
I'm really not sure how the rack will work on the street.. But I did put a rack on this S-10.. I had to change the whole front clip,, he hit the wall at over 100 mph,, Fixed it for him.. Put the rack back on.. And he has been running low 10's for this whole season now with out any trouble.. Now That is only on the track... Now sure how it would do on the street.. But it's like tech said,, you may end up with bump steer.. Not sure.. it did work good for the track.. :confused:
 

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#536 ·
THANKS for all the help and suggestions. I'm actually reconsidering my original radiator setup plan.

New plan. I'm going to lay the radiator flat / horizontal and use the factory vents that take advantage of the low pressure system behind the car to draw air into the "engine compartment to cool the air cooled engine, but in my case it'll cool the radiator. Also, I'll build some ductwork to direct the airflow through the radiator and out of the underside of the car which, in my mind, will keep the hot air from the exhaust and engine out.




Lastly, if I find myself in need of a little more air flow to radiator I'll get some deck lid stand offs.




I'm thinking I might not need them because the later model vw deck lids have vents to increase air flow, or is it to let hot air out from the engine?

 
#538 · (Edited)
V8 Super Beetle said:
THANKS for all the help and suggestions. I'm actually reconsidering my original radiator setup plan.

New plan. I'm going to lay the radiator flat / horizontal and use the factory vents that take advantage of the low pressure system behind the car to draw air into the "engine compartment to cool the air cooled engine, but in my case it'll cool the radiator. Also, I'll build some ductwork to direct the airflow through the radiator and out of the underside of the car which, in my mind, will keep the hot air from the exhaust and engine out.

Super Beetle,, Not trying to tell you how to build your car,, But I think you will get much better results if you make the air flow go the opposite way you have it...The air traveling over the top of the car, will not want to turn into the vent, But it may try to suck it out of the vent... I really believe that you can pull more air from the bottom like you planned from the beginning with a small duct facing forward.. You can still keep it flat,, just make the air come out the vent instead..... :) Just a thought.. ;)
 
#539 ·
NEW INTERIORS said:
Super Beetle,, Not trying to tell you how to build your car,, But I think you will get much better results if you make the air flow go the opposite way you have it...The air traveling over the top of the car, will not want to turn into the vent, But it may try to suck it out of the vent... I really believe that you can pull more air from the bottom like you planned from the beginning with a small duct facing forward.. You can still keep it flat,, just make the air come out the vent instead..... :) Just a thought.. ;)
Thanks for looking out. I thought it was the better way too. I did some posting on some vw sites and it was brought to my attention that the vents in the back of the car are in a low pressure area and they're there to draw in air to cool the air cooled engine. Must work well enough to actually cool and engine. :confused:

It was also brought to my attention that an opposite effect might go on doing the scoop from under the car. I put together an illustration how I'm guessing it would work. :confused: I'm not an expert at aerodynamics, but it seems to make sense. I do watch Discovery channel from time to time. :D Nothing is set in stone at this point which is why I'm asking for feedback to come up with the best possible solution. :thumbup:




On a side note, it must work well for this car that's putting out more hp than mine will.

http://www.scottstreetrods.com/patrioticVW.htm



 
#540 ·
I was thinking the same think. The air is going the wrong way in that picture!
I like the Idea of the horizontal radiator and using the factory air outlets.
I just dont think air flowing top to bottom will work since the hot air is trying to get up anyway plus the shape of the body should create a nice draft to help sucking the hot air out. Just my opinion.

Tomi
 
#541 ·
Furytom said:
I was thinking the same think. The air is going the wrong way in that picture!
I like the Idea of the horizontal radiator and using the factory air outlets.
I just dont think air flowing top to bottom will work since the hot air is trying to get up anyway plus the shape of the body should create a nice draft to help sucking the hot air out. Just my opinion.

Tomi
Hey Tomi, thanks for your feedback. I think that the air would flow like the picture and here's my thinking as to why it would.

Here are some pictures below of the original air cooled setup.




You'll notice a dog house which has a fan inside that's connected to the back of the alternator. The engine has tin that completely seals the upper portion of the engine off from the hot lower portion. At the back of the dog house is the fan that sucks in cool air. The tin work is made so it blows the cool air down on the heads and the hot air exits out from under the car. So basically I'll be creating the same effect but with a radiator in place of the engine.








That's why the deck lid stand offs help pull more cool air into the compartment. Right?
 
#542 ·
air flow

you are correct on the airflow top to bottom if you duct from the bottom up it will not work i tried it on a 4x4 beetle and it was way higher off the ground the problem is that it will not let air out worked ok at low speed and off road but on the highway ran very warm drove me nuts then out of dispare we turned the fan around and removed the air duct problem solved
 
#543 ·
I Would Be More Inclined To Listen To Someone That Has The Experience W/ The Setup. - That Said I'd Mount It Horizontally Using A Blow Through (down) Fan Spaced Approx. 2-4 Inches Away W/ Some Good Duct Work In Order To Flow As Much Air As Possible Through As Much Radiator As Possible.

My Initial Opinion Was That The "downflow" Would Not Work Since The "ram" Effect You Were Thinking Of Is Not Going To Happen Due To The Shape Of The Car. I Was Not Considering The Effect Of Air Below The Car And How That May Cause An Equalization In The Pressure On Each Side Of The Cooling Fan.

The Down-flow Will Still Need An Angled Outlet Duct Facing Rearward In Order To Prevent Pressure Equalization. (i.e.... If The Fan Is Blowing The Same Amount Of Pressure That The Passing Air Is Creating As A Low Pressure Zone, You Will Have No Air Flow Across The Radiator ... Just An Equalization Of Pressure)

Although I Think Either Direction Is Probable Given The Correct Duct Arrangement. If You "up-flow" The System You Will Want A Wedge Shape Inlet Duct W/ A Steep Base (like A Camaro/corvette) Although You Will Be Prone To Sucking Up Road Trash.
 
#544 ·
V8 Super Beetle said:
Thanks for looking out. I thought it was the better way too. I did some posting on some vw sites and it was brought to my attention that the vents in the back of the car are in a low pressure area and they're there to draw in air to cool the air cooled engine. Must work well enough to actually cool and engine. :confused:

It was also brought to my attention that an opposite effect might go on doing the scoop from under the car. I put together an illustration how I'm guessing it would work. :confused: I'm not an expert at aerodynamics, but it seems to make sense. I do watch Discovery channel from time to time. :D Nothing is set in stone at this point which is why I'm asking for feedback to come up with the best possible solution. :thumbup:




On a side note, it must work well for this car that's putting out more hp than mine will.

http://www.scottstreetrods.com/patrioticVW.htm

I would think the air does a little different then this picture, But... it's your car..good luck.. :thumbup:
 
#545 ·
Thanks for all the help guys!

I got some progress done this weekend. Not as much as I would've liked. I had my 10 year high school reunion on Friday night and I had a gig the following night. I was nursing a hangover most of the weekend. Ugh...good fun though.

Any who, here were are. Got the subframe for the radiator made.




Here you can see how the rad bolts in. Fairly simple.






I then welded it into the body. Notice the penetration on the rear clip.




I then made a template for the ductwork? Basically it'll keep the hot air from recirculating with the cold air. Next I just need to make a duct to direct the air out the back of the car and which will also help to keep hot engine air from reaching the rad.

Setting up the radiator leaned back rather than flat filled the area better and will be less sheet metal work that I have to do.

 
#549 ·
Hey mate, just wanted to let you know that I looked at your project for the first time in ages the other day, and wow, it looks great. You must be really excited now.

Not only is it really close to being driveable, but this thing is really going to go well too ;)

You should be very proud of all the hard work you've done. Congratulations

Much respect :pimp:
 
#550 ·
SECTION25 said:
Hey mate, just wanted to let you know that I looked at your project for the first time in ages the other day, and wow, it looks great. You must be really excited now.

Not only is it really close to being driveable, but this thing is really going to go well too ;)

You should be very proud of all the hard work you've done. Congratulations

Much respect :pimp:
Thanks you! I do feel a sense of accomplishment having got this far and never done anything like this before. There's still much more to do before I can really pat myself on the back. :thumbup:


89 Irocz said:
just a thought while your in their makeing all this ducting why not put in a small extra duct with some sort of a door to the cab to give u some heat when it is cold out :D
I had thought about that, but in Houston we're lucky to see near freezing temperatures during winter. :thumbup: A/C is something I should be looking into cause it gets well into 100+Âş during the summer. I could only imagine what the temps will be inside once the car sits in the sun some.
 
#551 ·
Some updates.

Well, it's been a nice long week off. Saturday, Nov. 7th I got married and I took the week off following the wedding. So I really didn't do too much to the bug, but I did manage to get some work done.




Some of the small things I did that weren't worth photographing are things like moving the tranny crossmember forward and torquing the tranny mount bolts, the crossmember bolts, bell housing, bolts, etc.


Few things I ordered came in. FlowMaster 40 series 2.5" mufflers, flexplate / tranny dust cover, inline water filler neck, and an overflow plug for the radiator. I plan to have the overflow come from the inline neck rather than from the radiator.




The garage was getting a little out of control so I felt the need to get it organized. That and I got tired of working off of the floor. So I built a table, a tool organizer and cleaned up the garage.






Painted and installed the tranny dipstick, as mentioned.




I started making the firewall, engine bay, and floor patterns. I'm almost finished with the patterns. All that's left is the section that'll go behind me. There's a few 4' x 8' sheets of 14 gauge steel I plan to use because it's free and it should be plenty strong for the flooring.




Last but not least, I cut out some 2" reinforcement triangles out of the 1/8" plates that came with my cage and welded them into the top of the cage, the dash bar, the lateral bars, and the main hoop outriggers. The pics look like crap and the flux doesn't help, but they came out really well. I also redid a couple of the cage welds so they would nicer. I'm getting better at this overhead welding business.








By the end of this week I hope to at least have the flooring on it's way to being finished. Once that's done I'll take it to the muffler shop and have the exhaust and plumbing work done.

More soon...
 
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