Hot Rod Forum banner

V8 1973 VW Beetle Project

825K views 836 replies 88 participants last post by  V8 Super Beetle 
#1 · (Edited)
Hello all!

I'm in the process of building a V8 Bug out of my 1973 VW Super Beetle. I know this is possible because it's been done before. I'm on the v8bugs.com forum where you can find a handle full of example and different ways to accomplish this, but I still have questions. There's a lot more traffic here so hopefully I can get some help. I'm pretty much a beginner hot rodder that's a DYI kinda guy.

I'm looking into building a custom 2"x3" tube chassis for my build. I've took some measurements from my bug and designed a chassis in Illustrator to size. I'm trying to design the frame so it'll use the stock suspension up front.

I currently have a 283 SBC and th350 to put into the bug, but at the moment the motor is the block, with pistons and all, and heads. The motor is at my old mans (he works nights) so I don't have access to measure the motor off for mounting and what not.

Could anyone tell me, ballpark figure, about how much distance I'll need from each frame rail to fit the engine with mounts and shorty headers?

Here's my frame design, the distance between each frame rail is exactly 27.5". Also I intend on mounting the motor to the crossmembers that hold in the front control arms / suspension. Is this enough distance? Could I bring the distance between the two main frame rails closer? How should I mount the engine to the cross member with then motor mounts I have (see picture below)?



Here's some pics of my beetle and progress. I'm still working on cutting out the trunk!





 
See less See more
4
#52 ·
Body Channeling

OK, I did a search on this forum but found lots of threads with the word body in it but nothing specifically talking about body channeling.

Can anyone tell me or give me advice on the best way to channel a body to fit / lower a the body on a frame / chassis? I'm wanting to look ahead into this because I will run into this soon and would like to kinda know where I'm going with this.

Is it as simple as placing the body on the frame, centering it (well, in my project's case), and cutting away the body sheet metal, using the side of the frame as guide?

Any advice / input would be appreciated!
 
#55 ·
I have no advise on channeling, never done it.
The S-10 frame is fairly tall and the floor pan of the bug is pretty flat. I think the frame will be intruding big time into the bugs interior. You will probably need some low riding seats to have any hope of head room.
JM2C
 
#56 ·
1ownerT said:
I have no advise on channeling, never done it.
The S-10 frame is fairly tall and the floor pan of the bug is pretty flat. I think the frame will be intruding big time into the bugs interior. You will probably need some low riding seats to have any hope of head room.
JM2C
True! The height of the S10 frame rails are 6" and the height of the heater channels that run along or make up the bottom of the door jam is about 2". So I'll defintely have a few inches of frame intruding into the interior. I kept the stock bug seats and I could easily remove the legs and pretty much mount them to the floor. There should be plenty of headroom cause of the bubble shape of the body.

Thanks for the advice!
 
#57 ·
Slag Inclusion

Hey guys, I got the frame welded up but I've run into a little trouble. Hopefully some of you could give me some advice to help me fix it.

I have an arc welder that I'm using to do the welding and I'm getting some slag inclusion. I'm a novice welder and I can weld a good looking sound bead using a circular motion technique flat, no problem. My problem comes when welding vertically. I think part of my problem is when welding vertically, bottom to top, the molten metal would run a little and trap some slag. Also, I'm using a 3/32 rod and I ran the first bead along the butt joint and then did multiple overlapping beads just trying to be sure I've got it welded up good. In doing so I've managed to trap some slag and I'm wanting to get rid of any slag inclusions. Before each pass I would clip and brush the slag away. So what I tried was grinding down the welds smooth and you could see the slight slag inclusion. I've used a wire brush and even a cup brush attachment for a grinder to try and remove the slag. I could completely get it out. So I would weld another few overlapping beads down to try and fix this to find I've made it a little better but then would run into the same problem.

How do I fix this? Also, I've having a little trouble welding on reinforcement plates. The slag is tending to fall into the cracks. The weld metal from the rod also would just sit on top the plate rather than weld the metal to the frame. Is this cause I'm welding it not at the right angle?

Here's some pics.





 
#59 ·
grouch said:
What kind of rods are you using? AC? DC+? DC-?

Have they been stored where the flux can't absorb moisture from the air?

Some of your beads look cold and rushed.

I suggest making it spotless and trying some new 7018 rods. Keep a very short arc, as in scratching along. Take your time and practice a bit.
To tell you the truth, I'm not sure if they're AC or DC cause I got a couple handfuls from our engineer here at work and they were stored in his shop in a cabinet. I'll look into that cause my machine is AC only.

I'm going to grind away the welds that don't look so great, practice some more, and then got slower and pretty much drag the rod to keep the arc length short and see how that turns out. I might have gradually rushed my welds and not have realized it being a novice welder. I have a new box of AC7018 rods that I'll give a try.

Thanks for the advice!
 
#60 ·
Understand that I'm not a welder by trade; I was just making guesses at the problems based on my own goofs. It would be great if we could get some of the ~real~ welders on here to take a look at your photos.

In the meantime, I searched for 'SMAW weld defects slag inclusion' and found the following:

SMAW Basics—How much do you know?
4. Porosity, slag inclusion, and undercut, the cardinal sin of welding, are defects because they weaken the welded joint and can cause it to fail.

Porosity is wormholes in the weld. It may be caused by moisture in the flux, which is turned into tiny steam explosions, or even minute traces of gas left in the steel when it was formed.

Slag inclusion occurs when the slag is not chipped and cleaned properly and then welded over. A good welder will burn through any exposed slag, but sometimes the slag can be skipped over, leaving it trapped under the bead.

Undercut is the cardinal sin because it occurs when the base metal is penetrated, or cut into, without leaving any filler metal. This usually happens when welders use the wrong rod angle, go too fast, or use amps that are too hot.
 
#61 ·
grouch said:
Understand that I'm not a welder by trade; I was just making guesses at the problems based on my own goofs. It would be great if we could get some of the ~real~ welders on here to take a look at your photos.

In the meantime, I searched for 'SMAW weld defects slag inclusion' and found the following:

SMAW Basics—How much do you know?
I understand and thanks for the guidance. I've read up and practiced throughly before attempting to weld my frame. I understand about chipping the slag and cleaning it all away before running another bead, but for some reason I would make a pass where I have not welded before, such as welding the fish plating, and the slag would just go down into the crevice / gap where the metal should've filled? I can't figure it out. Could it be cause the frame has become magnetized? I did notice when I was cutting the frame and doing the prep work that the metal the blade cut away was magnetize in the cut area, if that makes sense.
 
#62 ·
You probably could not have chosen a better rod than the 7018 for that but a DC machine with the DC version of the 7018 would sure work better, however the AC welder can be used for this it will just be a bit more work to get it looking right. From those pics it would seem that you are letting the arc get too long and you need to get in closer with a shorter arc and try to travel at a steady rate. Keep the arc short and try to keep it the same length from the start of the pass to the finish. I would strongly suggest you practice on some scrap before attempting any more welding on the frame and in a short time it will all seem easy, it just takes practice and you will soon develop a "feel" for it. Have you been using something like maybe 6013 or 7014 rods or have you been using the 7018 from the beginning? If you have been using one of the common mild steel rods such as any of the 60xxx or even the common 7014 then you should remove all of the weld and start over because those rods are not suitable for frame work and you really do need the 7018.
 
#64 ·
oldred said:
You probably could not have chosen a better rod than the 7018 for that but a DC machine with the DC version of the 7018 would sure work better, however the AC welder can be used for this it will just be a bit more work to get it looking right. From those pics it would seem that you are letting the arc get too long and you need to get in closer with a shorter arc and try to travel at a steady rate. Keep the arc short and try to keep it the same length from the start of the pass to the finish. I would strongly suggest you practice on some scrap before attempting any more welding on the frame and in a short time it will all seem easy, it just takes practice and you will soon develop a "feel" for it. Have you been using something like maybe 6013 or 7014 rods or have you been using the 7018 from the beginning? If you have been using one of the common mild steel rods such as any of the 60xxx or even the common 7014 then you should remove all of the weld and start over because those rods are not suitable for frame work and you really do need the 7018.
I've been using a Lincoln brand 6013 rod. So Should I start over?
 
#65 ·
oldred said:
You probably could not have chosen a better rod than the 7018 for that but a DC machine with the DC version of the 7018 would sure work better, however the AC welder can be used for this it will just be a bit more work to get it looking right. From those pics it would seem that you are letting the arc get too long and you need to get in closer with a shorter arc and try to travel at a steady rate. Keep the arc short and try to keep it the same length from the start of the pass to the finish. I would strongly suggest you practice on some scrap before attempting any more welding on the frame and in a short time it will all seem easy, it just takes practice and you will soon develop a "feel" for it. Have you been using something like maybe 6013 or 7014 rods or have you been using the 7018 from the beginning? If you have been using one of the common mild steel rods such as any of the 60xxx or even the common 7014 then you should remove all of the weld and start over because those rods are not suitable for frame work and you really do need the 7018.
What about leaving the frame welded with the 6013 rod and welding on the reinforcement plates with the 7018?
 
#66 ·
ANY 6013 weld you have on that frame needs to be removed as it simply is not compatible with the steel the frame is made of, It will weld it OK but it will not be nearly as strong as the 7018, in fact it probably will be quite weak. Also you should dry the rods for an hour or so in an oven at about 300 to 350 deg if the package has already been opened and if left exposed to the air for over an hour they should be dried again. You can bake these rods and then keep them sealed in an air-tight plastic bag until you are ready to use them. You may find that small 7018 a bit harder to use at first than the 6013 because it will tend to "stick" easier but with a little practice that will not be a problem, the 7018 however will weld in a vertical or overhead position a heck of a lot better than the 6013 and you will find it much easier to keep slag out of your weld using this rod. You are attempting some tricky welding for a beginner but I think you can do this with no real problems if you practice a bit first and learn a few of the tricks such as using the right filler metal and keeping those rods dry which is very important to prevent hydrogen embrittlement. Try and get some scrap about the same thickness as what you will be welding and then simulate what you are building that way you can identify potential welding problems and correct them before tackling that critical frame work.
 
#67 ·
oldred said:
ANY 6013 weld you have on that frame needs to be removed as it simply is not compatible with the steel the frame is made of, It will weld it OK but it will not be nearly as strong as the 7018, in fact it probably will be quite weak. Also you should dry the rods for an hour or so in an oven at about 300 to 350 deg if the package has already been opened and if left exposed to the air for over an hour they should be dried again. You can bake these rods and then keep them sealed in an air-tight plastic bag until you are ready to use them. You may find that small 7018 a bit harder to use at first than the 6013 because it will tend to "stick" easier but with a little practice that will not be a problem, the 7018 however will weld in a vertical or overhead position a heck of a lot better than the 6013 and you will find it much easier to keep slag out of your weld using this rod. You are attempting some tricky welding for a beginner but I think you can do this with no real problems if you practice a bit first and learn a few of the tricks such as using the right filler metal and keeping those rods dry which is very important to prevent hydrogen embrittlement. Try and get some scrap about the same thickness as what you will be welding and then simulate what you are building that way you can identify potential welding problems and correct them before tackling that critical frame work.
Thanks for your help! Unfortunately I welded many passes with the 6013 and completely have welded up the frame with it. So at this point I'm going to have to do some rethinking. In my mind it might almost be easier to just construct a new frame out of 2x3 steel tubing and use the front suspension from the S-10. I want the frame be done right and would rather put a little more time and $ into it then the frame fail on the road one day.

In the meantime, until I figure out what move to make, I'll get a 10 lb box of 7018 AC rods and practice, practice, practice.....
 
#68 ·
Updates.....

Finished welding the frame halves together.










I didn't see how close the tie rod ends were to the wheels. Pretty close. :)




Inside shots.








Some shots of the wheels / body with the fender on.








Looks like I'll have to add 2" to the fenders to cover the rear wheels.




The front seems okay. I guess the rear of the bug body is narrower?




Bug body sitting on the S10 frame.




Next I'll channel the body and remove the necessary metal so it'll drop down on the frame. Then I'll make the body mounts.
 
#70 ·
All this and a set of excellent pictures! That one-eyed beast in the last picture is almost alive. Keep safe while you're working on your Frankenwagen; don't want to let it get out of control on the home stretch. ;) I'm looking forward to the day when you proclaim, "It's aliiive!"

(Of course, that will mean the biggest journey is finished).
 
#72 ·
grouch said:
All this and a set of excellent pictures! That one-eyed beast in the last picture is almost alive. Keep safe while you're working on your Frankenwagen; don't want to let it get out of control on the home stretch. ;) I'm looking forward to the day when you proclaim, "It's aliiive!"

(Of course, that will mean the biggest journey is finished).
I think I heard a faint grown from the Frankenwagen (the last picture)...

I will keep safe as I go and I always dress for the occasion while piecing together my monster.

Lookin' like a mad scientist....


The day I claim "it's aliiiivvvve" will be a great one and I'll definitely get pictures and hopefully even some video. Until then I'm just taking my time with it.
 
#74 ·
grouch said:
What, no hardhat?

That dust mask looks like one of mine. (You know it's bad when you cough in one and then can't see for the cloud).

oshasanta
(Of course, that was made back before OSHA was gutted. Hard to be effective when the money's taken away and 2100 inspectors are all you have for 8,000,000+ workplaces -- they will complete their 1st round in 117 years).
LOL, yeah, I probably could've used one under that body working on the frame. Lord knows I bumped my head plenty of times.

I think that's when it would be time to get a new one, or just remove the dust with an air hose. :)
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top