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Old 11-28-2010, 04:00 PM
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valve lash mishap

So I was relashing my valves in my 89 Iroc (305 TPI with 190 AFR heads) when the glory of four obnoxious children took its toll and after hours of harassing me a pushrod dropped. I was adjusting the lash with the engine running using a modified valve cover that I cut open to access the rockers while sparing some oil splashing all over. Now the valves wear ticking bad on this particular cylinder and the rocker was so loose I could hand tighten it. Problem was that I was able to tighten it way down (with a rachet this time) before meeting resistance. Said rocker was approx 3/4 inch - 1 inch below its partner valve. Also of note is that the ticking got louder as I tightened it that is until it dropped and the engine stopped. When that happened my heart sunk as I was rolling the cost of all the parts involved in my head however on the bright side I did not hear any horrible metallic sounds when the engine stopped. It just choked out. Needless to say I'm afraid to turn her over again for fear of damaging the cam or cylinder or valves etc if they're not already toast. My question is first why was the valve so loose to begin with and second should I shoot the block or is there hope that there's no internal damage? P.S. I typed this on my phone so sorry for any crazy errors as I can barely read what I'm writing

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Old 11-28-2010, 04:28 PM
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There's 2 things that may have happened to the pushrod: It fell all the way down in to the oil pan and may or may not have gotten snapped in half by the crank. Or it may be sitting in the lifter valley. The cause of the problem is most likely a collapsed lifter. You'll have to did into it to find out what happened.
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Old 11-28-2010, 04:38 PM
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And you are sure it was the push-rod that dropped ? Never had that happen while adjusting the valves exspecially while the engine was running, Had some close calls but not that anyway. how was the enging running before you attempted to adjust the valves ? Was it popping or anything the rocker being that loose could be from a bad lobe on the cam bad rocker arm stud or even a bad rocker Or bent push-rod. You need to get some new rocker nuts or poly locks for it. When the engine quit exactly how did it go about it suddenly stop any strange sounds along with it stopping. You could have broken a valve on that cylinder also. If it were me i would tear it down and check everything in the engine. JMO You might have got lucky but the only way to know for sure is go in and check.


Cole
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Old 11-28-2010, 04:46 PM
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Are you saying the pushrod dropped 3/4 of an inch, or dropped out of sight? If it went out of sight, depending on what cylinder, chances are, if not an end lifter, it could be in the valley.

Cause of it coming loose could be the stud pulling out of the head, collapsed lifter, flat lobe, or like Cole said, the nut backing off.
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Old 11-28-2010, 05:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DLock
Said rocker was approx 3/4 inch - 1 inch below its partner valve. Also of note is that the ticking got louder as I tightened it that is until it dropped and the "ENGINE STOPPED". When that happened my heart sunk as I was rolling the cost of all the parts involved in my head however on the bright side I did not hear any horrible metallic sounds when the engine stopped. It just choked out.
This is the part of his post that got my attention.


Cole
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Old 11-29-2010, 11:40 AM
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So to clarify a couple of things first the valve side of the rocker arm depressed the 3/4 inch- 1 inch down.before the rocker bolt felt resistance and second it was the pushrod that dropped completely out of site. As for how she was running all was fine minus the loud ticking coming from the valves (#6 cylinder). As far as the other components go they're AFR heads, comp cam and all arp hardware. Also of note is that the engine "choked" out very quietly as if I had placed my hand over the intake or a vacuum line. I just wanted to get a general concensus on what damage I may be looking at as I'm a nurse by trade (mechanic by necessity). Like I've mentioned before I didn't hear any metallic noises when said issue occurred however all the ticking may have been the damage all along. I just wanna prep myself for when I pull the head because depending how bad things are I may just build up my 350 block instead of messing with this one. I was saving it for a down the road spare couple of grand in the pocket type of project but if the pistons are in anyway shot on this 305 I might as well just build the 383 I was planning. However it would be spiffy if the pushrod was just laying in the valley waiting for me to throw back in although in retrospect the whole bent valve idea sounds the most probable. I may have overtightened the valves when I replaced my headgaskets (last month) in a rush job to keep my car running so I could ship it out of hawaii with me. (I'm active duty army and I was changing duty stations when she decided to blow a gasket on me. The VPC wouldn't ship it if it wasn't running so I had a rush job situation. That's just a little background on how this all started.)
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Old 11-29-2010, 03:11 PM
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Just making sure.


Cole
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Old 11-29-2010, 04:57 PM
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Pull the intake and see if the pushrod is there, you may have gotten lucky. I'd check for a collapsed lifter or a bad cam lobe. I don't think the valve is bent. Loosen all the rockers up and spin them out of the way, then lay a straight edge across the tops of the valves and see if they are all even. If one's lower it is bent.
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Old 11-29-2010, 05:25 PM
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I think you might have got lucky also, I don't think you have a bent valve that is just something that happens when the valves are adjusted to tight or they will snap of and when that happens it usually will lock the engine up. That's what concerned me but you have verified so maybe it's ok.
But if didn't hear anything when it quit then maybe it missed everything going down. I would pull the intake and have a look.IMHO
But still leaves the reason the valve was loose in the first place. Let us know what you find. The rocker being that loose could be from a bad lobe on the cam bad rocker arm stud ( PULLING OUT )or even a bad rocker Or bent push-rod. You need to get some new rocker nuts or poly locks for it. Or could even be a colasped lifter as stated above.JMO


Cole

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Old 11-29-2010, 05:28 PM
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I doubt the pushrod would cause any damage if it fell all the way to the pan. A pushrod is pretty wimpy compared to the strength of the crank and rods.
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Old 11-30-2010, 12:11 AM
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Usually when something like this happened and I was asked to look in to it I`d shine a light in the pushrod holes in the head and see if I could see the pushrod. If I could I`d fish it out carefully. If not more than often we`d just leave it in there replace it and keep getting up. The one thing I`m curious about is, 190 heads on a 305? That sure don`t make for much low end power.
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Old 11-30-2010, 09:13 AM
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305

Pull the intake if it isn't stupid simple fix,Do the 350.You'll be happier.A lot of good 383 kits around.
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Old 01-09-2011, 02:28 AM
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Shweww (wipes sweat from head)

So i pulled the intake to find the pushrod in question bent like a horseshoe. At the bottom end it had a small 1/2 inch sized mild curve and at about 2/3's to the top it was bent roughly 80*. I'm assuming the bend is why it was so loose and my readjusting is what made it bend a second time. So $1.99 later I had 4 new pushrods from Autozone. (Only needed 1 but they come in packs of 4). One thing I noticed was that the set screw on the ARP rocker arm nut was backed all the way out on the pushrod of mention but all the others were set half way down. Possibly the reason the pushrod was bent to begin with. O and as far as the comment about "190 heads on the 305 won't be good for low end torque" my paltry 305 pulled 625hp/572lbs back in Hawaii (when it was tuned well but had lots of cooling issues) and I beat a Mercedes AMG V12 with a blown head gasket (For those keeping track of numbers the AMG has 518bhp and costs $143,000. Not bad for a punk ***** kid in a beater camaro) Now due to a laptop malfunction I'm sitting on my base map again lucky if I got triple digits at all. So I'll be off reading my Commander 950 manual and as soon as i get my internet back up at the house I'll post a pic of the pushrod.
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Old 01-09-2011, 04:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DLock
O and as far as the comment about "190 heads on the 305 won't be good for low end torque" my paltry 305 pulled 625hp/572lbs back in Hawaii (when it was tuned well but had lots of cooling issues) and I beat a Mercedes AMG V12 with a blown head gasket (For those keeping track of numbers the AMG has 518bhp and costs $143,000. Not bad for a punk ***** kid in a beater camaro)

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Old 01-09-2011, 07:37 AM
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rocker nuts

i have 2 friends that used the locking rocker nuts and both had problems comming loose. they both changed to regular nuts from NAPA and issue went away... thats close nuff for me, as i don't use them either..
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