Valve lash question. - Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board
Hotrodders.com -- Hot Rod Forum



Register FAQ Search Today's Posts Unanswered Posts Auto Escrow Insurance Auto Loans
Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board > Tech Help> Engine
User Name
Password
lost password?   |   register now

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 07-08-2012, 08:16 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 22
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 8
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Valve lash question.

i bought a 0.40 over chevy 350 and have had to replace a broken push rod. it has aluminum heads and 1.5 roller tip rockers a comp cam hyd flat tappet cam with 0.525 lift duration 305 both valves. my question is the guy i bought the engine from said to set the lash at 0.22 intake and 0.24 exhaust. it is a hyd cam and i have never heard of setting the lash like this on a hyd cam. solid cam yes hyd cam no. am i missing something here or should i set the valves the way i have always set hyd cams. way confused here folks. could this be the reason the valves seem to float on this engine at 3500 rpm? i cked the other valves and they are set just like it is a solid lift cam at 0.22 an 0.24. the motror has never run right and i have just about pulled what little hair i have out trying to figure it out. all the right stuff is there it just ain't cookin right.:confused
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 07-08-2012, 08:36 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Posts: 24
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
That's weird. Quite possibly once you tighten the rocker enough to remove play and then turn an additional 3/4 of a turn, you might have extended the pushrod tip .022" to .024" into the hydraulic lifter but the instructions you got sounds like he wants you to use a feeler guage and set them like a solid lifter. That would be wrong.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 07-08-2012, 08:36 AM
S10 Racer's Avatar
http://www.warsprints.com
 

Last journal entry: W.A.R. (Wingless Auto Racing) Sprint Car Racing
Last photo:
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: At The Dirt Tracks
Age: 55
Posts: 1,813
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 3
Thanked 51 Times in 46 Posts
If it is a hydraulic lifter cam, it will set at zero lash. You either bought it from a guy that don't know squat about motors or it has a solid lifter cam. I guess either way the original owner don't know squat if he don't know the difference. It would be wrong for any of us to tell you how to adjust the lifters without knowing for sure which cam you actually have. If you can push on the pushrod and collapse the lifter slightly, it will be a hydraulic lifter. If you push on the pushrod and the lifter don't collapse, it's solid. Give that a try and see what you find out.

Last edited by S10 Racer; 07-08-2012 at 08:45 AM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 07-08-2012, 08:44 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 22
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 8
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Its hyd cam

I cked the lifters when i had to replace the broken push rod and they are hyd. yea i think you are right about the guy i bought it from not knowing squat. the engine has never run right and now i think i know why. valves were set like they were solid and its hyd. i was getting alot of flutter from the engine at about 3500 and it just went flat. so i guess i better go back an set the valves right. i hope that cures what wrong with it.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 07-08-2012, 08:48 AM
S10 Racer's Avatar
http://www.warsprints.com
 

Last journal entry: W.A.R. (Wingless Auto Racing) Sprint Car Racing
Last photo:
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: At The Dirt Tracks
Age: 55
Posts: 1,813
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 3
Thanked 51 Times in 46 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by wma1950 View Post
I cked the lifters when i had to replace the broken push rod and they are hyd. yea i think you are right about the guy i bought it from not knowing squat. the engine has never run right and now i think i know why. valves were set like they were solid and its hyd. i was getting alot of flutter from the engine at about 3500 and it just went flat. so i guess i better go back an set the valves right. i hope that cures what wrong with it.
I would almost guarantee after you reset the valves for a hyd. cam it will run much better. With a lash on the hyd. lifters, you are losing valve lift.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 07-08-2012, 09:02 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 22
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 8
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
thanks

would the valves being set like they were solid make the engine flutter around 3500 rpm? i was thinking "and sometimes thats dangerous" that with them that lose the lifters would be going crazy. i just hope it hasen't hurt the motor any. like i said before i have been trying to get this thing worked out for about a month now. maybe just maybe this is the ticket.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 07-08-2012, 09:55 AM
How fast is fast enough?
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: St. Louis, MO
Age: 28
Posts: 8,247
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 13
Thanked 223 Times in 208 Posts
Are you sure its a solid cam? If he put a hyd lifter on a solid cam... well good luck. Also, are the springs matched to the cam? Are they worn out?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 07-08-2012, 10:13 AM
painted jester's Avatar
TAKE A KID TO A CAR SHOW
 

Last journal entry: $2500.oo Trans AM is home at last
Last photo:
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Central Michigan
Age: 67
Posts: 1,727
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 94
Thanked 252 Times in 206 Posts
Be careful If those are V-max lifters they are hydrolic but have a lash like solid lifters!!!!! Their made by rhoads ! Im not saying thats what lifters you have? Im just saying be carefull!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If you preload em The neighbors may come over to see what the noise was LOL If you dont know for sure you may want to change the lifters and not take the chance! The V-max are designed for all out racing I guess many of you don't know about them? I hope you read this and arnt in the garage adjusting!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Jester

Last edited by painted jester; 07-08-2012 at 10:29 AM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
The Following User Says Thank You to painted jester For This Useful Post:
wma1950 (07-08-2012)
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 07-08-2012, 12:57 PM
S10 Racer's Avatar
http://www.warsprints.com
 

Last journal entry: W.A.R. (Wingless Auto Racing) Sprint Car Racing
Last photo:
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: At The Dirt Tracks
Age: 55
Posts: 1,813
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 3
Thanked 51 Times in 46 Posts
I have never used V-Max lifters but everything I have ever read about them, they adjust the same way as other lifters on a hydraulic cam (zero lash + 1/4 to 3/4 turns).
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 07-08-2012, 02:21 PM
painted jester's Avatar
TAKE A KID TO A CAR SHOW
 

Last journal entry: $2500.oo Trans AM is home at last
Last photo:
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Central Michigan
Age: 67
Posts: 1,727
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 94
Thanked 252 Times in 206 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by S10 Racer View Post
I have never used V-Max lifters but everything I have ever read about them, they adjust the same way as other lifters on a hydraulic cam (zero lash + 1/4 to 3/4 turns).

You made a mistake! Or read about onother lifter?



Check it out>Untitled Page


I dont know if hes running them? Ive installed a few sets! one set at .O20 I&E The last set at .024 I & .028 exhaust! Seams like people that are going to set V-Max at "0" lash or turns down are throwing their money away!!!!! they weren't designed for that! Why not just buy the Rhoads original or stockers or anti pump ups???? If you take one apart its really beefy and has a very strong lock ring holding it together To take the abuse of a solid lifter where a normal hyd. lifter would grenade!

Jester





For maximum increases in low-end torque, engine vacuum and improved idle quality, our newly developed and newly patented Rhoads V-Max Variable Duration Lifters are the answer. They increase low-end torque and engine vacuum up to 50% more than Orginal Rhoads Lifters...and they rev higher too. This makes them the best choice for hot street, performance marine and all racing applications. Typical vacuum increases range between 3 to 5 inches at idle when used with bigger cams. They are fully adjustable and require an adjustable valve train.


> Adjustment is similar to solid lifters. Simply use a feeler gauge to adjust the exact amount of lift reduction you want, anywhere from .010" to .030"<


and that is exactly what you get at idle. Duration is reduced between 5 and 20 degrees at .050" lift depending on the adjustment. As the rpm increases, so does the lift and duration. Full restoration takes place at approximately 4000 rpm. For engines equipped with adjustable valve trains, Rhoads V-Max Lifters are definately the best choice. They are particularly suited for racing applications with vacuum rules. You can run more cam than your competition while still meeting vacuum requirements, giving you the performance advantage.
"I cannot express how pleased I am with Rhoads Lifters. I can feel the difference in my low-end performance and street driveability is much better. I now have all-in-one, a city, highway, and performance cam! Your product is everything you've said it was."----Gordon W. Smith, Las Vegas NV
Back to PRODUCTS

202 E. Main St
San Manuel, AZ 85631
Phone: (520) 229-9375
Fax: (520) 385-4596
CustomerCare@rhoadslifters.com

Last edited by painted jester; 07-08-2012 at 02:49 PM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
The Following User Says Thank You to painted jester For This Useful Post:
wma1950 (07-12-2012)
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 07-08-2012, 03:00 PM
painted jester's Avatar
TAKE A KID TO A CAR SHOW
 

Last journal entry: $2500.oo Trans AM is home at last
Last photo:
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Central Michigan
Age: 67
Posts: 1,727
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 94
Thanked 252 Times in 206 Posts
For any one curious! I'm not recommending anything but the two customers had no vacuum for their power brakes on the street but still wanted the monster cams over 6 and 7 hundred lift and outlandish duration For weekend 1/4 mile blasts. when the Vmax where installed the Below 3500 rpm vacuum was up drastically !

Jester



HOW TO INSTALL AND ADJUST RHOADS V-MAX LIFTERS

THE RHOADS V-MAX VARIABLE DURATION HYDRAULIC LIFTERS ARE ADJUSTED SIMILAR TO SOLID LIFTERS SO READ AND FOLLOW THE INSTRUCTIONS CAREFULLY

STEP 1

With intake manifold removed and camshaft installed, begin by inserting all lifters into engine block. It is best to keep the intake manifold off so that the lifters can be viewed while adjusting, but it is not necessary. The lifters can be properly adjusted with the intake manifold on as well.

STEP 2

Make sure the lifter being adjusted is on the low side (base circle) of the cam when adjusting, just like you would when adjusting any solid lifter cam. In this position, the valve would be in the fully closed position. For street use place a .020” feeler gauge, (use .030" for racing), or for aluminum blocks use a .010" feeler gauge (or .020" for racing) between the valve stem and rocker arm as if adjusting solid lifters, and tighten the lock nut until the lifter plunger bottoms out in the lifter shell and the valve begins to open. Now back off on the lock nut until the valve just closes and the pressure of the valve spring just begins to release on the feeler gauge. When you can just slide the feeler gauge back and forth with slight drag from the spring, the adjustment is correct. Repeat this process until all lifters are adjusted. After the adjustment, the plunger position should be nearly all the way down to the bottom of the lifter shell, and not up against the retaining ring, with no clearance in the valve train whatsoever. Please remember to adjust the lifter when the valve is in the closed position, or the adjustment will be wrong. For absolute accuracy, the adjustment can be repeated when the engine is at normal operating temperatures, but the adjustment should be made with a .020" feeler gauge (.030" for race) for both cast iron and aluminum heads when the engine is hot. Also, never adjust the lifters at zero lash or looser so that the plunger is up against the retaining clip as standard anti-pump up lifters are adjusted. This will cause valve train damage.

OTHER SUGGESTIONS

You should never adjust the lifters with more than .030 to .035 thousandths of an inch, but you can use less such as .010”-.025”. When checking valve to piston clearances, tighten the lifters to .005” and conduct the test, then readjust them to the proper setting after the test is completed.

By tightening the exhaust valve more, you will get a lopier idle, which is preferred by some who like the sound. For higher compression engines, both the valves may be tightened to help reduce pinging. Also, tightening the adjustment will reduce the ticking sound at idle. This may be helpful with sensitive knock sensors that interpret the ticking as pinging. While this will not hinder the rpm potential of the Rhoads Lifter, the reduction in lift and duration at low speeds will be minimized with a tighter adjustment, yielding smaller increases is low-end torque, engine vacuum and producing a rougher idle.

As mentioned above, Rhoads Lifters sound similar to solid lifters at idle and low speeds. Usually this solid lifter sound is not heard until the engine warms up to near operating temperatures.

This product made under at least one of the following patents: 3921609, 4524731, 4913106.
Other patents pending. VMAX is a trademark of Rhoads Lifters, Inc.

Please call us at 520-229-9375 with any questions

HOW TO INSTALL AND ADJUST THE RHOADS V-MAX FLAT TAPPET CAM KIT

THE RHOADS HYDRA-SOLID LIFTERS ARE ADJUSTED SIMILAR TO SOLID LIFTERS SO READ AND FOLLOW INSTRUCTIONS CAREFULLY

STEP 1
With intake manifold removed and camshaft installed, begin by inserting all lifters (well oiled with assembly lube applied to the bottom of each lifter) into engine block. Keep the intake manifold off so that the lifters can be viewed while adjusting.

STEP 2
Make sure the lifter being adjusted is on the low side ( base circle ) of the cam when adjusting, just like you would when adjusting any solid lifter cam. Place a .040” feeler gauge between the valve stem and rocker arm as if adjusting a solid lifter cam, and tighten lock nut until the plunger bottoms out in the lifter shell and the valve begins to open. Then back off on the lock nut until the valve just closes and the pressure just releases on the feeler gauge. Use the same feel and precision you would as if you were adjusting a solid lifter cam. Repeat until all lifters are adjusted. After the adjustment, the plunger position should be nearly all the way to the bottom of the lifter shell, well down from the retaining ring. Please remember to adjust the lifter when the valve is in the closed position, or the adjustment will be wrong.

OTHER SUGGESTIONS
You never want to adjust the lifters with more than .040”, but you can use less such as .020" to .030”. By tightening the exhaust valve more you will begin to get a slightly lopey idle, which is preferred by some who like that sound. For higher compression engines, both valves may be tightened to help reduce pinging. Please feel free to call tech support at 520-229-9375.


202 E. Main St
San Manuel, AZ 85631
Phone: (520) 229-9375
Fax: (520) 385-4596
CustomerCare@rhoadslifters.com

Last edited by painted jester; 07-08-2012 at 03:12 PM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
The Following User Says Thank You to painted jester For This Useful Post:
wma1950 (07-12-2012)
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 07-08-2012, 03:12 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 22
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 8
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I am really confused now. LOL!!!

I don't know if they are rhoads lifters or not. i tried to adjust them like you would a hyd lifter, 0 lash and then 1/2 turn and the intake valve hit the piston on the way up when i turned the motor by hand. i backed off and set them with 0.24 intake and 0.26 exhaust and all turned over well. so now i am really confused because the lifters look like hyd and the guy i bought the motor from says there hyd but i can't adjust them like hyd. the springs are new and so are the rockers 1.5 roller tip. now i am beginning to wonder if the push rods are to long. i had to replace one and had to get it from a race engine shop. they were 8.50 by 5/16. the stock push rod is 7.794 i think. i know when using aluminum heads and roller tip rockers they have to be longer than stock. anyway i would hate to have to pull the motor and do a complete tear down on a fresh built motor. but things ain't lookin so good.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 07-08-2012, 03:26 PM
painted jester's Avatar
TAKE A KID TO A CAR SHOW
 

Last journal entry: $2500.oo Trans AM is home at last
Last photo:
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Central Michigan
Age: 67
Posts: 1,727
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 94
Thanked 252 Times in 206 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by wma1950 View Post
I don't know if they are rhoads lifters or not. i tried to adjust them like you would a hyd lifter, 0 lash and then 1/2 turn and the intake valve hit the piston on the way up when i turned the motor by hand. i backed off and set them with 0.24 intake and 0.26 exhaust and all turned over well. so now i am really confused because the lifters look like hyd and the guy i bought the motor from says there hyd but i can't adjust them like hyd. the springs are new and so are the rockers 1.5 roller tip. now i am beginning to wonder if the push rods are to long. i had to replace one and had to get it from a race engine shop. they were 8.50 by 5/16. the stock push rod is 7.794 i think. i know when using aluminum heads and roller tip rockers they have to be longer than stock. anyway i would hate to have to pull the motor and do a complete tear down on a fresh built motor. but things ain't lookin so good.
Not Rhoads original but V-Max made by Rhoads!!!! I just posted the instructions for the Rhoads V-max lifters which I'm sure now you have !! copy em and set your lifters as the instructions state ! If those are V-max Your lucky you didn't try to adjust it running You also may have the cam kit by rhoads wich is instructions # 2 But I dont think you have!

Jester

Last edited by painted jester; 07-08-2012 at 03:36 PM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
The Following User Says Thank You to painted jester For This Useful Post:
wma1950 (07-12-2012)
  #14 (permalink)  
Old 07-08-2012, 03:27 PM
S10 Racer's Avatar
http://www.warsprints.com
 

Last journal entry: W.A.R. (Wingless Auto Racing) Sprint Car Racing
Last photo:
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: At The Dirt Tracks
Age: 55
Posts: 1,813
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 3
Thanked 51 Times in 46 Posts
If it was mine, I would replace all the lifters. That way you know what you have to work with.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #15 (permalink)  
Old 07-08-2012, 03:59 PM
painted jester's Avatar
TAKE A KID TO A CAR SHOW
 

Last journal entry: $2500.oo Trans AM is home at last
Last photo:
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Central Michigan
Age: 67
Posts: 1,727
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 94
Thanked 252 Times in 206 Posts
Your 3500 rpm flutter is about the rpm that these lifters change the duration and lift of your cam you will have to tune appropriately Jetting, max advance, etc etc I dont know your knowledge on power tuning but the Rhoads tech line is posted in my post call em they'll talk you through it.

They designed them and tested on different engines and know the basic set up to help give you a basis to start!

Jester
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
The Following User Says Thank You to painted jester For This Useful Post:
wma1950 (07-12-2012)

Recent Engine posts with photos

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name (usually not your first and last name), your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
valve lash question boredandglued Engine 2 10-27-2010 09:42 PM
Question Setting Valve Lash Landshark928 Engine 3 10-05-2010 10:30 AM
Valve lash question motorhead454 Engine 3 09-01-2008 11:08 PM
Question about setting valve lash.... Trans Am Tony Engine 3 05-22-2007 04:57 PM
Valve lash question mkebaird Engine 3 07-06-2006 10:23 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:00 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
Copyright Hotrodders.com 1999 - 2012. All Rights Reserved.