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Old 12-10-2004, 10:34 PM
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Valve Train Noise!!!!

Hey guys, Need your help on this one big time

Ok Ill start you all from the beginning. 4 years ago I began to re-build my 69 Ford 302 for my Mercury. Had the block completely checked out by a machine shop. Bought everything brand new for the Internals. Installed a Comp cam kit which was the Cam, Lifters, Magnum Pushrods and Roller tip 1.6 Rockers with the allen key Locks in the center. Engine ran great for a year. I moved to Arizona to go to Automotive Tech school. While there I came across a Crack Head who worked at a parts store and would give me parts for next to nothing as long as I put the money in his pocket instead of the Register So I went crazy and upgrade from the 289 Performer Intake to the Air Gap and a Speed Demon Carb among other parts. Because I was doing the swap in my Apartment complex and wasnt allowed to work on cars in the carport I rushed the job and didnt seal off the coolant ports on the back of the intake very well. Inevitably coolant leaked into the lifter valley and before I knew it I had flattened the cam.

So here I am 4 years later back in california. I ripped the motor out and stripped it down. The cam was flat and the lifters were gonners, the oil pump was gone and the bearings had a little wear but actually looked ok. I think I caught it just in time. I sent the block back to the machine shop and they went through it and everything checked out ok. So totally cleaned up and ready to go I replaced all the bearings the cam and lifters, I stuck with the same pushrods and Rockers since they looked ok. This time around because I am on a budget, ( Married with children now hehe ) I installed a Performance Federal Mogul cam and Lifters. I also put on a double roller timing chain and retarded the cam.

Everything during the build went great, engine went in in a matter of days and besides a few ignition problems I had the engine running no problem. Now heres my problem. The engine is noisy as hell. Im getting great oil pressure all throughout the engine and its running fine. I use the Comp Cams recommended procedure of adjusting the rockers but it seems its just not working out. No matter what after a few revolutions of the engine the rocker seem considerably loose and it looks like the rockers arent hitting the Valves straight on their heads. Im stumped. I dont know what I did wrong or whats going on. If anyone can throw a few Ideas at me I would most appreciate it.

Sorry this is kinda a long story but I wanna lay down all the facts so hopefully someone can spot my mistakes.

Thanks ahead of time for any help or suggestions.

Buck

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Old 12-10-2004, 10:53 PM
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I am thinking this a hydraulic not a solid cam. Adjust them with the engine running. Start by Tightening anything that is clacking. Then once it is quiet enough to hear loosen them one at a time. Tighten until no clacking then 3/4 of a turn more. If you have oil squirting all over you can stick on the valve cover with no gasket and just 2 bottom bolts of the side your not doing. Then switch the valve cover and do the other side. When you tighten it the 3/4 turn it will slow down the engine rpm. Dont worry about that it will stabalize back up. If it starts to clack again either you have lifters bleeding down or nuts coming loose.
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Old 12-10-2004, 11:26 PM
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Is it possible to have bad lifters right out of the box. Also can the lifters get C*ck-eyed in their bores?? The rocker nuts are the ones with the Allenhead screw in the center to lock them down so I dont think they are coming loose. I will give this method a try but I have been told time and time again that I should be fine doing them the static way. The porcedure im doing is crank engine until The exhaust valve begins to open, Tighten the nut on the intake rocker to zero lash the 1/2 turn from there. Next crank the engine till the intake has opened and begins to close then do the half turn deal on the exhaust. Thanks for the reply I will give this a shot!
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Old 12-12-2004, 11:19 AM
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Bump

Anyone else have any thoughts on this?? I wanna get as much input as I can before i take theses valve covers off again. Will be the 100th time, LOL.
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Old 12-12-2004, 06:20 PM
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It is possible to get anything out of the box bad. It is unlikely that you would get 16 bad lifters out of the box. Try adjusting it while running and let me know what happens.
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Old 12-12-2004, 06:43 PM
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adjusting your valves

I would suggest using the running method. If you can locate some, get ahold of a set of rocker arm clips. They go over the pushrod end of the rocker arm and act as an umbrella to prevent oil from shooting everywhere.
Cut a piece of carboard about 4 inches wide and long enough to fit round the bottom of the head inside the rocker cover seat, to fit in between the springs and the rocker cover seat. It should be long enough to come up on the sides past the rocker arm studs.
Start the engine and at idle first loosen the lock nut and slowly turn it in. If you do this fast, the lifter will semi pump up and your rpm will drop off til the lifter regulates itself. If the lifter stops chattering, tighten the lock screw. and go to the next rocker arm and repeat the process. Once all the way down the line, go back to the start. Loosen that rocker arm til the lifter starts chattering, then tighten til it stops, and give it 1/4 more turn, and lock down. Go to the next one and repeat the process. Dont remove both rocker covers at the same time. Squirting oil and oil running down under the cardboard can be very messy, so I would leave the other rocker cover on til Im done with the first bank.

If this doesnt cure the problem, I would say you have some expensive noises to look into.

One thing, going with just a 1/4 turn on the rocker arm as mentioned earlier, could cause you to have a wee bit of lifter noise when you first start your engine, if you have a weak lifter or two, but that will go away as soon as your pressure builds up. The reason for going only 1/4 turn is that it will raise the point of lifter pump up which causes valve float. I have done this on all my hydraulic cams and never had a problem with them.

Even the anti pump up high performance lifters will pump up at some rpm.

Last edited by Max Keith; 12-12-2004 at 06:42 PM.
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Old 12-12-2004, 07:18 PM
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Thanks for the replys, I appreciate it.

Once all the rockers are adjusted properly is it normal that the rocker arms can move side to side quite a bit?? I grab them with my fingers and can jiggle them a bit!!
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Old 12-12-2004, 07:54 PM
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rocker arms

You shouldnt be able to wiggle them all over the place; only a little movement in a twisting motion around the stud. You shouldnt be able to rock them from side to side. Those should be rail type rocker arms, on a 69. Comp Cams part number CCA-1431-16. These are the ones designed to be used with your 302, unless you have put guide plates on it.
I just thought of something else. Do you have screw in studs? If you are using the origional pressed in studs, its possible that with all the high lift and springs, you may be pulling the studs out. If thats the case, I recommend tapping them back in, get you 16- 1/8th inch X 1 1/2 inch roll pins, and a couple good drill bits. Drill into the stud bosses from the intake manifold side, and drive a roll pin into each one. This will prevent the studs from pulling up.
Since those are studs for a postitive stop set up, you may well be bottoming out on the stud before you get your proper tightness. An easy cure for this is to put a 3/8ths flat washer between the rocker arm ball and your adjusting nuts.

A flat washer will give you an additional .050-.100" of run down on the stud, before the adjusting nut bottoms out on the shoulder of the stud. Comp Cams also makes a kit making the positive stop stud adjustable, part number 4610-16. It includes a self locking nut and a special washer that fits down over the shoulder of the stud. Ive had this set for several years now so dont know what the price tag is on them. I would suggest getting ahold of PAW, Jegs, or Summit, on that one.

They cant be that expensive.
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Old 12-12-2004, 11:59 PM
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Hiya max,

I have rooler tip rockers from comp cams. I have the screw in studs already and I am using guideplates. The rocker arm side to side movement probably isnt that much im just being paranoid, hehe. I took the valve covers off and its pretty quite under there so I left them alone.

After working 25 days straight and every night in the garage Ive been pretty tired, I took a step back and listened to it all over today. What I thought might be the engine making noise may actually be cheap old collector gaskets I am using. I have a set of those "Dead Soft" Aluminum header collector gaskets so I started to install those tonite till I got a chunk of rust in my Eye and had to go to the ER. They got the piece out and my lens isnt scratched, Thank God. One of the Old collector gaskets looked like it was leaking pretty good when I removed it. Gonna finish the collectors tomorrow then see what happens. Hopefully this does it I can't begin to imagine if there is something wrong more internally.

Thanks for the replys.
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